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Old 04-14-2014, 10:12 PM   #29
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I am lost trying to figure out your logic. How does buying a new proven motorhome with options I choose from a trusted dealer and manufacturer that is going to fix anything that needs it, make me a guinea pig?? What am I missing???
I guess my response is that we all make future decisions based on our past personal experiences.

Over the years I have enjoyed the privilege of owning several fine vehicles. Some were purchased brand new. Some of those brand new vehicles were excellent.

In three instances, in the '80s and the early '90s, the brand new 'proven' vehicles I purchased had very serious structural and/or mechanical design flaws that rendered the vehicles unusable. I never had the pleasure of using those vehicles at all. During the time that I owned those vehicles, they mostly sat in the dealerships lot.

In each of those instances, the manufacturer that I had trusted was at a total loss to know how to solve the problem. In each of those instances, the fine dealership that I trusted was at a total loss to know what to do. They would put their heads together and devise a 'fix' and give the vehicle back to me to let me try it out. I would take the vehicle home and try to use it. It would immediately break down on the road, and then a tow truck would take it back to the dealership.

In each of those instances, after patiently working with my dealership for a couple of years, I lost most of the money I had spent as I had to practically give the vehicles away privately. Nobody wanted them, including the manufacturer that made the vehicle, and the dealership that sold me the vehicle.

I call that being used as a guinea pig.

Those experiences led me to the decision to never again purchase a brand new vehicle. It has been one of the best decisions that I have ever made.

I view the manufacture of RVs today to be about the same level of quality as the manufacture of vehicles used to be several years ago. So, if I'm considering another RV, I choose to look for something used.

I realize and appreciate that somebody has to buy the new product, or there would be no used product for guys like me.

I hope this explains my position.

Jim
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Jim View Post
I guess my response is that we all make future decisions based on our past personal experiences.

Over the years I have enjoyed the privilege of owning several fine vehicles. Some were purchased brand new. Some of those brand new vehicles were excellent.

In three instances, in the '80s and the early '90s, the brand new 'proven' vehicles I purchased had very serious structural and/or mechanical design flaws that rendered the vehicles unusable. I never had the pleasure of using those vehicles at all. During the time that I owned those vehicles, they mostly sat in the dealerships lot.

In each of those instances, the manufacturer that I had trusted was at a total loss to know how to solve the problem. In each of those instances, the fine dealership that I trusted was at a total loss to know what to do. They would put their heads together and devise a 'fix' and give the vehicle back to me to let me try it out. I would take the vehicle home and try to use it. It would immediately break down on the road, and then a tow truck would take it back to the dealership.

In each of those instances, after patiently working with my dealership for a couple of years, I lost most of the money I had spent as I had to practically give the vehicles away privately. Nobody wanted them, including the manufacturer that made the vehicle, and the dealership that sold me the vehicle.

I call that being used as a guinea pig.

Those experiences led me to the decision to never again purchase a brand new vehicle. It has been one of the best decisions that I have ever made.

I view the manufacture of RVs today to be about the same level of quality as the manufacture of vehicles used to be several years ago. So, if I'm considering another RV, I choose to look for something used.

I realize and appreciate that somebody has to buy the new product, or there would be no used product for guys like me.

I hope this explains my position.

Jim
Over the past 55 years of vehicle ownership, I can't think of one new purchase that was not what I expected it to be. Some had minor issues that the dealer took care of. In the early years, we could not afford new, so we purchased used and some of those cars cost a bundle to maintain. We ended up with someone elses problems. When we reached a level of income that allowed us to buy new, we did with great satisfaction. The few times we have been burned, was with something used. Other than "Buyers Remorse" which I get on every vehicle purchase, we have never gone wrong with "New". I wouldn't call that being a guinea pig.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crasher View Post
Over the past 55 years of vehicle ownership, I can't think of one new purchase that was not what I expected it to be. Some had minor issues that the dealer took care of. In the early years, we could not afford new, so we purchased used and some of those cars cost a bundle to maintain. We ended up with someone elses problems. When we reached a level of income that allowed us to buy new, we did with great satisfaction. The few times we have been burned, was with something used. Other than "Buyers Remorse" which I get on every vehicle purchase, we have never gone wrong with "New". I wouldn't call that being a guinea pig.
Which goes to prove that we all make future decisions based on our past experiences.

Jim
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:38 AM   #32
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Where in the world did you draw that conclusion from.....???

Hhg
From the chart posted in the first post of this thread.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:17 AM   #33
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That chart clearly shows that more gas rigs are purchased than diesel. Why do you think that is? Could it possibly be that the gas rigs are significantly cheaper than the diesels and therefore more affordable to the average rv'er?
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:43 AM   #34
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The best RVs or autos are always the ones that have been manufactured the longest. It takes a few years to get the kinks out. A good example is the fuel line location on the late 80s Fleetwood gas. Of course when a company goes out of buisness and then it resurrected you lose all prior knowledge.
Buying a new model is always a crap shoot. I don't consider staying at a manufacturer parking lot while they fix it camping.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:57 AM   #35
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First, gas vs. diesel : cost and situation. If you are financially in the upper percentile, then diesel is the way to go. If you are full time more likely to be able afford diesel, since you are likely to have money from the sale of your home. For those of use who are not full time, and are middle class folks, gas is a better option. For us our gas is 38 ft and has all the features of the most diesels except the dishwasher. We drive it about 15K miles a year. It's kind of like what kind of car do you drive at home. If you can afford a Mercedes great, or do you get from point A to point B in a Toyota or Chevy? What is it about for you, how you get there, or what you do once you get there?

Second. Manufacturer: I have owned a Winnebago, and now own a Newmar. I have been through the Newmar factory. For me, hands down Newmar. But do a little homework. I like to browse the used market, like the wife likes to browse clothing stores. And I can't agree more with buying two or three year old rigs. With that said, look at that segment by brand, see how many are out there, two to three years old. Someone commented on buying a 1 yr old rig with say 8,000 miles.......wonderful idea. Now try to find a Newmar that meets that.
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:21 AM   #36
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We have a 2007 40 ft Tiffin Phaeton, it is our third motor home and 1st used one. We bought it used 3 years ago and loved the product. We just concluded an 8 month search for a new unit. We looked at every brand that was in the MSRP range between $200,000 to $500,000. Went to many dealers in different states (some as many as 3 times to look at floor plans).

As of last week, we changed our minds and will keep what we have. Everyone was way overpriced for what they delivered. All had problems. All had quality issues. And EVERY dealer (except Beaver Coach Sales in Bend-great place) acted like they were doing us a favor ! The arrogance of these people shocked us ! A half a million bucks! Really ? For that ? No, Really ?

This industry is showing some serious cracks and it feels like this "house of cards" is beginning to crumble. Due to poor quality and price hikes (after hike after hike!) dozens and dozens of people we know are saying "were not gonna take it any more". We are the customer and the manufacturers are not listening. The ridiculously high new coach prices are also allowing dealers to keep the used ones high as well.

Last week (again, after an 8 month search) we had decided on the Tiffin Allegro Bus 45LP. We had planned on going to see it built. Then we sat down and really looked at the quality and what new owners were saying about their new MH's. I really really felt like we were getting ripped off. We changed our mind and this week we head for a minor "RV make-over" (furniture and blinds). Next year we will head to Red Bay, just for fun, and up grade someone stuff. We are buying a nice house in Washington and getting a makeover for far less than what a new inferior MH would cost. Just personal preference until this industry changes. We won't be arguing with anyone, just 2 peoples decision to not get ripped off by an industry that has some issues right now.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:50 PM   #37
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Last September we bought a 2008 Thor Four Winds Mandalay that was on consignment. Three weeks after we brought it home the owner where we bought it called and wanted to know if I want to sell it at a hefty profit. The engine was built in December 2006 and does not have any of the EPA exhaust requirements on it. Since this one had ever thing in it that we wanted in a new to us coach we could not part with it.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:05 PM   #38
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After almost 3 years - my Newmar is Better than it was when new.... as has been noted, the bugs are worked out. Norcold safety box DOA, Splendide Washer/Dryer DOA, cargo door latch broke, rear A/C failed / replaced etc. All fixed. Plus it now has Magne Shades, wheel covers and an in-motion satellite dome. Like I said - better than new.

Point is, I think there's a lot of wisdom in buying a 2-3 year old coach vs new; The bugs have been worked out by someone other than you.
Or, they couldn't fix them and dumped the coach. You'll never know which until you own it. At least a new caoch has a factory warranty. You can be lucky or unlucky either way.
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:42 PM   #39
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Exclamation

I am convinced that the number of problems you have with a new motorhome are really a function of luck.

I had almost no initial problems with my previous coach, but over time things do break. Every time something did go wrong and I had to fix it, I would look at the way it was built and was amazed how it survived so long. Every repair included some amount of redesign and/or rebuilding.

All of my problems could have (should have?) occurred far earlier in the coach's life. The timing was happenstance.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:22 PM   #40
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That chart clearly shows that more gas rigs are purchased than diesel. Why do you think that is? Could it possibly be that the gas rigs are significantly cheaper than the diesels and therefore more affordable to the average rv'er?
Definitely could be... then again, maybe not. We are non-retired "vacationers" and don't care to pay $300k for a diesel to sit in storage 95% of the time. We chose a gasser because 1) we like it and 2) it made sense for us.

As for new vs used; we choose new.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:27 AM   #41
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Or, they couldn't fix them and dumped the coach. You'll never know which until you own it. At least a new coach has a factory warranty. You can be lucky or unlucky either way.
Agreed. I think you have to recognize the red warning flags if the unit is a couple of years old, with very low mileage and very low generator hours. I take that as a warning that there may be a possibility that the original owner may not have been able to use it because it was being worked on instead of being used. The fact that it is now for sale may be an indicator that the manufacturer was unable to solve the problems the unit may have.

Jim
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Old 04-16-2014, 05:31 AM   #42
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We have had two Tiffins, one a gasser, one a diesel. We have had very few problems, all minor. We full time in a Phaeton and couldn't be happier. We prefer the diesel over the gas model but were happy with both. We would not hesitate to buy Tiffin products again.
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