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Old 07-27-2007, 08:07 PM   #1
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My Son installed a Device that adds Propane to the intake manifold on his pickup truck. he says that it gives him better performance and gas mileage. I was wondering if anyone has installed one on a motor home. It is made by WELSH TECHNOLOGIES
http://www.welshtec.com/ He claims that it is easy to install and will not effect any warranty. it uses 1 gal propane for about 20 gallons of gas. here is what they say.
Quote:
The patented Welsh Technologies Multi-Fuel System utilizes a measured quantity of gaseous alternate fuel simultaneously with the existing use of liquid fuel to maximize the combustion efficiency of virtually any internal combustion engine that uses liquid fuels such as gasoline, diesel, methanol, ethanol, or other alcohol derived fuels. Welsh Technologies offers Multi-Fuel System models for LPG (propane), CNG (compressed natural gas), Hydrogen, and Sewer Gas gaseous alternate fuels.
Comments anyone? Your thoughts.
Mel B
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Old 07-27-2007, 08:07 PM   #2
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My Son installed a Device that adds Propane to the intake manifold on his pickup truck. he says that it gives him better performance and gas mileage. I was wondering if anyone has installed one on a motor home. It is made by WELSH TECHNOLOGIES
http://www.welshtec.com/ He claims that it is easy to install and will not effect any warranty. it uses 1 gal propane for about 20 gallons of gas. here is what they say.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The patented Welsh Technologies Multi-Fuel System utilizes a measured quantity of gaseous alternate fuel simultaneously with the existing use of liquid fuel to maximize the combustion efficiency of virtually any internal combustion engine that uses liquid fuels such as gasoline, diesel, methanol, ethanol, or other alcohol derived fuels. Welsh Technologies offers Multi-Fuel System models for LPG (propane), CNG (compressed natural gas), Hydrogen, and Sewer Gas gaseous alternate fuels.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Comments anyone? Your thoughts.
Mel B
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:02 PM   #3
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I've heard of this type of system. I have no complaints with my 350 Cummins ISC, and figure any increase the system gave me in diesel mileage would greatly reduce my LP "mileage!" Frankly, I'm not terribly interested in adding something that will "help" me burn LP faster, and cause me to need to buy it more often!

....my thoughts...
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Old 07-28-2007, 02:59 AM   #4
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A few years back there was a lot of discussion about this topic on the diesel pickup boards. There are a few other companies that make such products also.

Supposedly, adding LPG to a Diesel engine is a catalyst, it helps the diesel fuel burn completely. From what I have read it is an increase in mileage overall (even once you figure in the propane usage) and also a power boost.

I tend to be in AFChap's camp, not only do I have little desire to find a way to burn through LPG quicker, I tend to like to keep things simple, and not add potential problems. The bottom line is every time you increase HP or Add Power you scarafice something, it may be longevity, mileage, or reliability.

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Old 07-28-2007, 06:27 AM   #5
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I tend to agree with you except I have a gas Engine in my Coach. It is the Vortec Engine and workhorse Chassis. According to my son you do not modify anything and installation is very simple. It seems to make sense, But like so many things that are suppose to increase mileage and power I find that many do not do what they say. Guess I will have to buy one and see. It is $285 without a propane tank. I will use the 24 gallon tank on the coach or else install a small 5 to 7 gal on in a basement compartment.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:58 AM   #6
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I would like to hear your experience with this if you do install the unit. A power increase would be nice and better milease is a good thing also, but frankly, I really would like to know that my vehicle is not producing and sending mass amounts of hydrocarbons into the air.

Someone earlier mentioned that there are other companies that also sell this same type of deal. I would like to hear who they are so I can take a look at what is out there.

R
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:09 PM   #7
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Mel,

A little straight talk here. I have spent LOTS of time on a diesel truck web site called the Turbo Diesel Register. One thing I can tell you is that if you add ANY power modification to your vehicle the manufacturer WILL void your warranty. Most after market manufacturers tout the Mangesson/Moss warranty act that says that the dealer must prove that the mod you did caused the problem that you want them to fix in order to justify their denial. Sure, that's true, as long as your lawyer can outlast their team of lawyers.

That being said, there is an old saying on the TDR that goes "I am my own warranty station".

Nuff of that. Propane will definitely boost your power and may even add some MPG. What it will also do is boost the heat inside your engine, and also increase pressure in the cylinders. That strains your head gaskets and head bolts that keep everything together.

Injecting water/methanol into the air intake stream does the same thing as well. Methanol is found in window washer fluid. But getting the mix correct and keeping there can be a balancing act. Too much injected at other than the optimum time spells disaster. Use your own judgement after doing LOTS of research.

Make your own informed decision, and not one based on someone else's opinion. These rigs cost too much to make a mistake.......

Just my .02,

Sarge
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:25 PM   #8
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Thanks for your input Sarge. My Rig is a 2002 Pace Arrow 37a Vortec gas engine and workhorse chassis. Here is a little more of what the company says on their website as far as heat and longevity of the engine and economy.
Mel B

Decreased Fuel Costs

Multi-Fuel System operation can result in reduced gasoline or diesel fuel use by 20% to 60%, resulting in combined fuel savings of 30% or more.

Decreased Maintenance

Multi-Fuel System operation results in more efficient combustion and cooler engine temperatures extending oil changes, spark plug, tune-up, engine maintenance, etc. intervals; adding to the economic advantage.

Decreased Emissions

Multi-Fuel System operation reduces emissions in even high mileage, high polluting vehicles to "NEAR-ZERO" levels.

Increased Performance

Multi-Fuel System operation increases combustion efficiency with increased engine torque providing increased acceleration and smoother engine performance.

Increased Range

Multi-Fuel System operation increases vehicle travel range between refueling of fuels.

Increased Engine Longevity

Multi-Fuel System operation increases combustion efficiency, reduces engine temperatures, and the gaseous alternate fuel cleans the engine of built-up deposits of tar and carbon resulting in increased engine life.
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:18 AM   #9
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Hello, All,

Some months ago, I was reading a discussion (on one of the RV boards - maybe not this one) about Propane Fumigation (or whatever it's refered to) and, because of what was said and answers to some questions, came to the conclusion that it was a process that could only be applied to Diesel engines. No one in that discussion suggested that it could be applied to a gasolene engine at all. I must assume I and others may be wrong about that. I'm glad to discover this thread and appreciate the writings so far.

My interest would be applying some additive (propane or Nitrous Oxide) only when needed for a boost up a hill for instance. In that occasion, I would think that trying to develop more power would also cause more heat - and that is also a problem I have been concerned with. (Got enough of that already - and it's making me plan to remove the dash AC units radiator which sits directly in front of the main engine radiator - another story).

I'll keep looking here for more information. Thanks, so far.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:40 PM   #10
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Hello Brian
I am still researching this and will post my findings. As I said in my first post my son is a propane
installer and has use both propane and gas dual fueled vehicles for many years. I also have had Dual
fueled Propane and gas rigs. This setup really is not a Dual Fuel setup even though you could probably
get a tax deduction in some states claiming it as a dual fuel setup.

From my understanding of it and what my son tells me. It is a type of metering device that that injects
a metered amount of propane at a certain time into the intake manifold through a vacume port. it can be
turned on or off and if you run out of propane your engine just runs the way it did without the propane
device installed. He has it installed on his gasoline engined Pickup truck (ford) hooked to a 5 gal propane
tank. he can really tell the difference when the unit is turned off or he runs out of propane.

Here is a copy of a email I just got from Welsh Tecnologies.
Thank you for your inquiry into Welsh Technologies' Multi-Fuel System. The patented and patent pending Multi-Fuel System is the ideal cost effective means to maximize your vehicle's performance and fuel savings. In addition to reducing emissions there is at least a 25% improvement in overall fuel economy and increased low-end torque engine performance and reduced engine maintenance.

The Multi-Fuel System utilizes a small measured amount of propane fuel as a catalyst to maximize the combustion efficiency of gasoline or diesel fuels. The Multi-Fuel System was developed as a means to reduce vehicle emissions to near-zero levels. This is achieved by combusting the gasoline or diesel fuels within the engine instead of exhausting unburnt as hydrocarbons to the environment or attempting to burn the unburnt fuel in the catalytic converter, without benefit of the energy of what is being burnt. The Multi-Fuel System takes propane from on-board storage and treats, controls, and injects a variable amount of gaseous propane to the engine. The propane catalyst is used to vaporized and volatilize the liquid fuel during the compression stroke and enhanced combustion from the high octane of enhanced fuel mixture. The Multi-Fuel System is recognized as a 'Dual Fuel' Alternate fuel system by the U.S. Department of Energy and allows federal tax deductions. The Multi-Fuel system has been engineered for simple quick installation and without any modifications to your vehicle and works within the vehicle's original stiometric specifications so all OEM warranties remain in effect and there is no violation of tampering laws.

The Mizer-MFS is our model specially designed for gasoline or diesel vehicle from compact cars to SUV and medium trucks and all in between. The Mizer-MFS has engineered for simple installation for virtually any vehicle and comes with a step-by-step installation manual. The Mizer-MFS is $285.00 and includes shipping within the US. There are several options for storing the propane on-board for your vehicle including vehicle propane tanks. We in addition offer Propane Reservoirs that incorporate our automatic over fill protection and remote mount Quick-Fill Connection and adapters starting at $350.00 plus shipping. See what the Mizer-MFS can do for your vehicle!

I would suggest that you go to their Website and read all about it. They show pictures of the device
installed on diesel and gas rigs large and small. info is below. I am about ready to get it myself and
try it.
Mel B

WELSH TECHNOLOGIES
Box 4214, River Edge, NJ 07661, Telephone: 201/489.3465, Fax: 201/489.3110, www.welshtec.com
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:22 PM   #11
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There was also an article in one of the RV Magazines a year or two ago about the propane setup for motorhomes. Although I this article was specific to diesel powered only. After all the hopla about it in the article they did a test over a period of time and distance, and it ended up their savings due to better mileage was offset by the cost of the propane and so the whole thing was a wash. They didn't say that much about the increased performance, but if memory serves it was a good sized diesel engine which performance probably wasn't that much of a factor.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:29 AM   #12
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I believe if any of these systems worked the auto industry would install it themselves. When we had propane powered cars at work they would not start in the winter and had to be fueled twice a day. We had the same results using natural gas. Also the oil had to be changed more frequently, I believe the oil was changed almost twice as often.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:42 AM   #13
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I have owned several Dual Fuel (Propane Gasoline) Trucks and a motor home that was Dual Fuel. I never had the problems that you mention. I did find that going up hills I had to drop down a gear. Another words if I went up a hill in high gear with Gasoline, Then using propane to go up the same hill I had to down shift 1 gear. This device that I have been asking about is not a true dual fuel setup. It is a device that injects or mixes propane at predetermined times into the intake manifold to do what the makers of the device say.
Mel B
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