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Old 07-24-2013, 11:30 PM   #15
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Doubt it.

The Trombetta switch is like the voice coil in a speaker. The coil is very heavy duty, as is the actuator (moving part). I doubt that anything you could do would weaken it. It is meant to be energized (on) for long periods of time.

If you can put a voltmeter on the two small wires going to the Trombetta and have somebody press the aux/emergency start switch and you see it go from 0 to whatever your battery voltage is and it doesn't click then it's the part to replace.

If you don't see a change in voltage it's something else.
IMHO the more likely failure point is the relay wired to the coil of the Trombetta. Or the Battery Control Center (BCC). The relay is cheap, the BCC is not.

I replaced my Trombetta and found it not to be the problem. Currently looking at severed wiring, and actually found some.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:04 AM   #16
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If you look below the solenoid in the picture. The black box below it says isolator and below that says Diesel.
That's a BIRD isolator. It's a bi- directional battery isolator.
Two independent inputs activate the white Rogers relay. One is your booster switch. That is wired directly to the white Roger relay. The second is that black box below it called BIRD.
If the white roger relays is going on and off its one of those 2 inputs to the white roger coil. Since no one is pressing the booster switch, it must be the BIRD isolator turning the white roger relay on and off. That's it. I explained above how it works.
The white Roger is a 200 amp, silver contacts, continuous relay. Very heavy duty. They do go bad, but the situation you are describing tell me the relay is fine. Something is putting a load on your 12V system bring the charging voltage below 13.5 volts. That would cause you hearing the relay to activate and release, controlled by the BIRD.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorlininc View Post
If you look below the solenoid in the picture. The black box below it says isolator and below that says Diesel.
That's a BIRD isolator. It's a bi- directional battery isolator. .
Some great info here, thanks for explaining it. So to clarify, when plugged into shore power, house batteries are charging, if the chassis batteries drop below a threshold, then the isolator will open so that the house batteries are now connected to the chassis batteries to top off or did I mess that up?

I just identified why my house batteries were going dead i had a 1.5 amp draw which was due to my Kenwood flip up screen head unit and attached nav accessory. Between the 2 pieces of electronics, they would kill my brand new house batteries in a day almost. Ill now try the same method to identify a chassis battery drain if you're saying that's why it's clicking on at random times?

Ill need to do some googling on BIRDto learn more too.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:07 AM   #18
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Not exactly.

The BIRD has 2 modes.
When on shore power your inverter charges your house batteries. The BIRD senses the house battery voltage above 13.5 volts and after a 2 minute delay closed the relay and charges your chassis batteries. If a big 12v draw occurs and the voltage drop a below 13.5v it opens the relay so not to discharge the chassis batteries.
The second mode is when the motor is running. Now it senses the alternator charging the chassis batteries. After 2 minutes, the BIRD activates the relay and charges the house batteries.

If you relay is closing and your chassis batteries are not charging check the following
Water in batteries
Chassis Batteries are good
The contacts on the roger white relay are probably shot and you might change the relay.

Google BIRD. there is information on them.
Rick
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:08 AM   #19
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Here's another picture and a bit more information.

Yesterday when I was trying to figure out what was clicking, I was tapping around in the elec closet and seeing if anything made a noise. I was on genny power at the time. It was loaded and could tell there was a load by the sound of the motor. When I tapped the isolator it clicked and the genny revved up like the load just dropped. It clicked, I tapped again and it clicked and genny revved up again like no load.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:20 AM   #20
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Thanks got the new pic

What year is your rig?
First if you can tap the relay and it deactivates then you may have a loose wire.
Second. Is there a wire on the genset terminal on the BIRD? I have a theory. Let me know about that genset wire
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:26 AM   #21
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Checked wires all appear tight.
No wire on genset terminal

2000 dutchstar
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:52 AM   #22
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Ok. Here's my option

The BIRD wasn't used much in the early 2000s.
The BIRD was connected to a (BCC-battery control center) which I don't see in your pics.
The fact you have no genset wire means you probably shouldn't have a BIRD. My guess is the previous owner thought he could replace the IRD with a BIRD. it doesn't work properly.
In IRD works like a BIRD but only functions when the alternator is on (motor running). It senses the 13.5v from the alternator and after 2 minutes closes the relay and charges your house batteries while you drive. When you are plugged on or on generator the house batteries charges but the chassis batteries get nothing.
That's why the BIRD has a genset terminal. It wants to know where the power is coming from. You are missing that wire.
I suggest you call your manufacture and read your owners manual and schematic and verify you are suppose to have the BIRD isolator. I'll bet you are not wired for it. But check first. It I'm right then it won't work correctly and probably explains why it's clicking. You might find in your owners manual that you have a battery maintainer. It's works like an IRD
Let me know what you find out.
I hope this helps
Rick
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:01 AM   #23
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That's entirely possible! Ill give Newmar a ring today and post my results. Thanks for all your help.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:20 PM   #24
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I just spoke with newmar, mine is equipped with a BIRD system. The reason for the genset not having a wire he said was that mine was not equipped with that option. He said that if house batteries reached a certain point it would fire up the genny automatically. Guy said likely the trombetta also if I tap and it clicks.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:30 PM   #25
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Great. That's why I mentioned to check with your manufacture. Don't want to give false information. The relay is about $60 and you can google that. I agree that should fix your problem. I replaced mine last year. Well now you know how that hole system works. Happy travels.
Rick
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #26
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Coming in a little late on this discussion, but I have to ask.
Is you coach still equipped with the original Todd Engineering convertor charger.
The reason I ask is , my Todd 75, has a manual charge rate plug that must be installed for a fast rate charge of 14.2 v, without the plug it charges at, maintenance rate of 13.2v. and that voltage may be too close to the BIRD control voltage causing the intermittent relay engagement.
Todd manual says to only run the high rate charge if you have been boon docking and need to charge the batteries in a hurry.
When on shore power, I run the maintenance voltage, and mark on the calendar , every 2 weeks to run high rate to maintain the coach battery voltage for 12hrs.
The high rate triggers the BIRD almost immediately.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:35 PM   #27
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I see three major devices there that might go CLICK and loudly

Two can shaped devices are either your isolator or battery cut off solenoids or your emergency start solenoid. They should not click in normal operation (Well Unless you are changing something.. IE turning the batteries OFF and ON (Disconnecting/reconnecting) or about a minute after you fire up the engine)

The box like object I could not id due to interfering wires but it MIGHT be a self resetting thermal circuit breaker

Or it could be the control device for the soleonid(s).
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:18 PM   #28
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My opinion is that this is the charging isolation relays. As the house or coach battery needs to be charged the relays open and close as needed. The coils in the relay are calibrated to operate at specific voltages as i understand it. Yours may have shifted internally on a very hard bump and is now 'telegraphing' the switching action through the case and mounting. If the charging solenoid fails, as mine did on my last rig, you will know something is not right because the batteries won't charge.
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