Help in understanding Vehicle Weights

[Arizona Lizards]

I thought I had a handle on GVWR, GCWR, etc. But a recent post on the Newmar forum AND email from a dealer have my head spinning.
The following was posted on the Newmar forum:

Ventana LE 34 and 37 models (I'm looking at a Ventana LE3427):
GVWR 31,000#
GCWR 33,300#
Towing load 2,000#
The author went on to state you could only tow a max of 2000#. Is this right

OR

According to the dealer:
"...The tow rating is separate from the unit carrying capacity. The carrying capacity for the coach is 4500# and the tow capacity is 5000#. The difference between the gross combined weight of 33000# and a 4000# car gives you 2500# of cargo. The carrying capacity only takes into consideration the tow hitch NOT the weight of the towed vehicle. "

Which is correct?

Thanks,

Lisa

[Lt Dan]

Check to see if you can find an empty weight for the coach. That subtracted from the GVWR will give you the carrying capacity. The GVWR is just the maximum weight when loaded.

[barmcd]

None of what the dealer says makes any sense for this model coach. Newmar's web site says the UVW is 28,000 and the GVWR is 35,000 lbs which should give you a carrying capacity of 7,000 lbs. The GCRW is 45,000 which leaves a towing capacity of 10,000 lbs, assuming the hitch can handle 10,000 lbs.

I "think" any weight the towed vehicle or trailer puts on the hitch is included in the 7000 lb carrying capacity.

These are nominal weights and may differ slightly depending on how the vehicle is optioned out. You should check the label on the coach you are anticipating buying.

[gasser 38]

Originally Posted by barmcd

None of what the dealer says makes any sense for this model coach. Newmar's web site says the UVW is 28,000 and the GVWR is 35,000 lbs which should give you a carrying capacity of 7,000 lbs. The GCRW is 45,000 which leaves a towing capacity of 10,000 lbs, assuming the hitch can handle 10,000 lbs.

I "think" any weight the towed vehicle or trailer puts on the hitch is included in the 7000 lb carrying capacity.

These are nominal weights and may differ slightly depending on how the vehicle is optioned out. You should check the label on the coach you are anticipating buying.

That sounds more like it the weights listed by op don't seem correct

[Onegeorge1]

barmcd,

The numbers you are quoting are for the larger LEs. The shorter ones have the smaller transmission (2500) that limits the GVWR and GCWR to 31000 and 33000.


Fulltiming in a 2012 Newmar Ventana LE 3634

[Arizona Lizards]

Originally Posted by barmcd

None of what the dealer says makes any sense for this model coach. Newmar's web site says the UVW is 28,000 and the GVWR is 35,000 lbs which should give you a carrying capacity of 7,000 lbs. The GCRW is 45,000 which leaves a towing capacity of 10,000 lbs, assuming the hitch can handle 10,000 lbs.

I "think" any weight the towed vehicle or trailer puts on the hitch is included in the 7000 lb carrying capacity.

These are nominal weights and may differ slightly depending on how the vehicle is optioned out. You should check the label on the coach you are anticipating buying.

I think you are looking at the same thing I looked at originally which is for the 40+ foot LEs. This is from Newmar's site:

Model. GVWR GCWR App. UVW App. NCC
3427 31000 lb. 33000 lb. 25,700 lb. 5,300 lb.
3436 31000 lb. 33000 lb. 25,700 lb. 5,300 lb.
3709 31000 lb. 33000 lb. 27,300 lb. 3,700 lb.
3725 31000 lb. 33000 lb. 26,800 lb. 4,200 lb.
4002 36400 lb. 41400 lb. 29,200 lb. 7,200 lb.

I have asked the dealer to send the weights for the coach, but haven't heard back.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by Onegeorge1

barmcd,

The numbers you are quoting are for the larger LEs. The shorter ones have the smaller transmission (2500) that limits the GVWR and GCWR to 31000 and 33000.


Fulltiming in a 2012 Newmar Ventana LE 3634

I looked up model 3427, don't know if it was an LE.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by Arizona Lizards

I think you are looking at the same thing I looked at originally which is for the 40+ foot LEs. This is from Newmar's site:

Model. GVWR GCWR App. UVW App. NCC
3427 31000 lb. 33000 lb. 25,700 lb. 5,300 lb.
3436 31000 lb. 33000 lb. 25,700 lb. 5,300 lb.
3709 31000 lb. 33000 lb. 27,300 lb. 3,700 lb.
3725 31000 lb. 33000 lb. 26,800 lb. 4,200 lb.
4002 36400 lb. 41400 lb. 29,200 lb. 7,200 lb.

I have asked the dealer to send the weights for the coach, but haven't heard back.

That does look like it has a 2000 lb tow rating. Newmar uses the same model numbers for different coaches?

[Kiawah]

Your towing capacity, is the "minimum" of the following two:

- Hitch capacity
- GCVWR, minus the actual weight of your loaded coach.


Let's assume you have a hitch rated at 5K. (I don't know your actual hitch rating). "IF" your coach was fully loaded up to it's maximum GVWR (31,000) weight, you would be able to tow a 2.3K car (assuming their was no significant downward pressure on the hitch which would add to the coach weight). The GCVWR is the maximum weight that the brakes and engine/transmission can handle, hence it is the total of your coach and your toad. So that would be 33,300 Gross Combined rating, minus the actual weight of the coach 31,000 = 2,300 lbs available for the toad. GCVWR is the gross weight of everything, and in the unlikely event that you get stopped by state police and weighed.....you don't want to be over that weight total. By the way, you also don't want to be over either the front or rear axle weight ratings either.

If on the other hand your coach was 2K under it's maximum rated weight (31K - 29K hypothetical), then you would be able to tow a 4.3K toad (2K left over from the coach, and 2.3K between GCVWR and GVWR). That is 33,300 Gross Combined rating, minus the actual hypothetical weight of the coach 29K = 4,300 lbs available for the toad.

In another unlikely scenario, assume your coach actual weight is 4K under it's GVWR and actually weighs 27K, that would be potentially 6.3K.....however the metal in your hitch is only good for 5K. So the max toad would be 5K, the maximum of the hitch.

I'm speculating on the rating of your hitch, and arbitrarily assumed it to be 5K metal rating. I'm also using the numbers you posted above for GCVWR and GVWR.

When you weigh you coach on CAT scale, you want the coach loaded as you normally travel, and I always include people, kitchen, clothes, basement load, a full tank of fuel, propane, fresh water, and empty black/grey. That way I know the exact weights, and can set the tire pressures correctly.

[mikelcan]

I think what the dealer was trying to say is that if you want to tow a 4000# vehicle that has no "tongue" or hitch weight you will need reduce your actual weight by 2000#s. If you also have tongue weight then you need to further reduce your cargo weight by that amount. As long as your total weight is under 33000 then you would be fine.

But if you load the MH up to the GVWR then yes you only have 2000# available for towing.

Mike

[Arizona Lizards]

Originally Posted by Kiawah

Your towing capacity, is the "minimum" of the following two:

- Hitch capacity
- GCVWR, minus the actual weight of your loaded coach.


Let's assume you have a hitch rated at 5K. (I don't know your actual hitch rating). "IF" your coach was fully loaded up to it's maximum GVWR (31,000) weight, you would be able to tow a 2.3K car (assuming their was no significant downward pressure on the hitch which would add to the coach weight). The GCVWR is the maximum weight that the brakes and engine/transmission can handle, hence it is the total of your coach and your toad. So that would be 33,300 Gross Combined rating, minus the actual weight of the coach 31,000 = 2,300 lbs available for the toad. GCVWR is the gross weight of everything, and in the unlikely event that you get stopped by state police and weighed.....you don't want to be over that weight total. By the way, you also don't want to be over either the front or rear axle weight ratings either.

If on the other hand your coach was 2K under it's maximum rated weight (31K - 29K hypothetical), then you would be able to tow a 4.3K toad (2K left over from the coach, and 2.3K between GCVWR and GVWR). That is 33,300 Gross Combined rating, minus the actual hypothetical weight of the coach 29K = 4,300 lbs available for the toad.

In another unlikely scenario, assume your coach actual weight is 4K under it's GVWR and actually weighs 27K, that would be potentially 6.3K.....however the metal in your hitch is only good for 5K. So the max toad would be 5K, the maximum of the hitch.

I'm speculating on the rating of your hitch, and arbitrarily assumed it to be 5K metal rating. I'm also using the numbers you posted above for GCVWR and GVWR.

When you weigh you coach on CAT scale, you want the coach loaded as you normally travel, and I always include people, kitchen, clothes, basement load, a full tank of fuel, propane, fresh water, and empty black/grey. That way I know the exact weights, and can set the tire pressures correctly.

Thank you very much. This makes more sense than anything else I have read. Now I need to get them to send me the actual rates on the RV as built, so I will know what I have to play with as far as contents, water, fuel, etc.

[Arizona Lizards]

That does look like it has a 2000 lb tow rating. Newmar uses the same model numbers for different coaches?
__________________

Yes, they do. Both the Ventana and the Ventana have the same model numbers - it can get confusing.

[Arizona Lizards]

Originally Posted by mikelcan

I think what the dealer was trying to say is that if you want to tow a 4000# vehicle that has no "tongue" or hitch weight you will need reduce your actual weight by 2000#s. If you also have tongue weight then you need to further reduce your cargo weight by that amount. As long as your total weight is under 33000 then you would be fine.

But if you load the MH up to the GVWR then yes you only have 2000# available for towing.

Mike

Thank you for the info. I think you are correct in what he was trying to say.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by Arizona Lizards

Yes, they do. Both the Ventana and the Ventana have the same model numbers - it can get confusing.

that can be confusing