Help- Winnebago vs. Holiday Rambler

[biggcrisp]

I love Winnebago motor homes. REV currently has better qualities -- possibly due to product lines crossing?

Winnebago is stuck with old designers and possibly poor quality, raw product purchasing practices?

[flywithcoop]

We chose our current RV based on the floor plan and all the components in the unit. Have owned a Winnebago with 19.5" tires and a Tiffin with 22.5" tires both had the Ford Chassis. Believe me the heavier Tiffin with 22.5" tires drives better then the lighter 19.5" chassis. It has no side drift when a semi truck passes. Better ride. Overall just a much better driving experience. Floor plan and Heavier chassis is what I would go for.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by vtwinwilly

Gordon, I have read this on IRV2 more times than I can count and I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint for the OP to consider.

I'd say it depends on what you plan to do with the coach. If you're a retired Full-Timer that drives 250 miles, then stops someplace for a month, then drives another 250 and stops for 3 months, etc., then yes ... Floor plan is King!

However, if you're like me - still a working stiff - then the schedule dictates when we can travel and when we can't. We'll often jump in the motorhome, and drive 1200 miles straight through. Stay a week and drive 1200 miles home. As a result... Ride and Handling are King! I spend so much time behind the wheel, I have to have a coach with good road manners. The floor plan? ... as long as It's got a bed, bathroom and kitchen, I can make just about anything work.

Just another perspective for the OP.

With all due respect I have to partly disagree with you.

There are not many coach manufacturers who prepare (or advertise) their units with ride and handling as their first priority. Newmar does tout Comfort Drive as a benefit but Comfort Drive is mainly on their high end models and not available on the two choices noted in the thread. (I have not driven a Comfort Drive but if it makes as much of an improvement as suggested I could go back and make a sandwich.)

There will be exceptions to any statement even mine! However my belief is that most like their creature comforts and convenience.

[computerguy]

It's interesting how the OP asks about 2 manufacturers and the responses say go check out such and such.
A Newmar and Tiffin are possibly a step above in quality. That's also subjective. You will pay more for a Tiffin and Newmar out the door. My experience was the Tiffin was 5-10% more and the Newmar was 15% more than my Bounder (sister to a HR Vacationer). I negotiated real hard on all 3 and went with the Bounder based on value for my hard earner dollar.
Not sure why so many say look at something that is out of the OP's budget. But that's just MO. Heck, I'd like a Prevost but I can't afford it. Why muddy the waters for an already difficult decision for the OP????
Personally HR and Winnie are pretty close in price point and quality IMO. I do think the HR is just a step above but that is subjective.

[DHart]

Originally Posted by computerguy

It's interesting how the OP asks about 2 manufacturers and the responses say go check out such and such.
A Newmar and Tiffin are possibly a step above in quality. That's also subjective. You will pay more for a Tiffin and Newmar out the door. My experience was the Tiffin was 5-10% more and the Newmar was 15% more than my Bounder (sister to a HR Vacationer). I negotiated real hard on all 3 and went with the Bounder based on value for my hard earner dollar.
Not sure why so many say look at something that is out of the OP's budget. But that's just MO. Heck, I'd like a Prevost but I can't afford it. Why muddy the waters for an already difficult decision for the OP????
Personally HR and Winnie are pretty close in price point and quality IMO. I do think the HR is just a step above but that is subjective.

It is better to take more time and consider more options up front, than to strap on blinders and realize after-purchase that another option may have made more sense.

The OP can look at Newmar or Tiffen and decide for himself if the extra cost is something he is OK with or not. Sometimes spending some more the first time can prevent a greater loss later! Don't ask how I know this.

[vtwinwilly]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

With all due respect I have to partly disagree with you.

There are not many coach manufacturers who prepare (or advertise) their units with ride and handling as their first priority. Newmar does tout Comfort Drive as a benefit but Comfort Drive is mainly on their high end models and not available on the two choices noted in the thread. (I have not driven a Comfort Drive but if it makes as much of an improvement as suggested I could go back and make a sandwich.)

There will be exceptions to any statement even mine! However my belief is that most like their creature comforts and convenience.

With an "all due respect" ... back at ya!

I wasn't talking about what manufacturers advertise, promote, or even engineer into their units "as a priority." I'm talking about real world, butt in the seat driving experience. Even if we limit our selection to the two coaches listed in this thread, one will have different, maybe even better ride and handling characteristics than the other. To folks who spend a lot of time in the saddle, that can be very important. Even the most important!

Again... if the RV sits stationary for long periods of time, floor plan would be very important, but if the RV spends a lot of time rolling down the highway, good road manners are a must.

BTW.... there are some nice handling coaches out there without Comfort Drive. It's not a must have. I've driven a couple of coaches that have Comfort Dive, and while it's nice (makes steering down the road easy) I wouldn't call it a deal maker or breaker. It does nothing to smooth out bumps.

Clearly "floor plan" is not my number one consideration.

... but, everything ain't for everybody!

[DHart]

Fortunately, good road manners, great floorplan, and good quality are not mutually exclusive qualities. Don't buy until you find them all.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by vtwinwilly

With an "all due respect" ... back at ya!

I wasn't talking about what manufacturers advertise, promote, or even engineer into their units "as a priority." I'm talking about real world, butt in the seat driving experience. Even if we limit our selection to the two coaches listed in this thread, one will have different, maybe even better ride and handling characteristics than the other. To folks who spend a lot of time in the saddle, that can be very important. Even the most important!

Again... if the RV sits stationary for long periods of time, floor plan would be very important, but if the RV spends a lot of time rolling down the highway, good road manners are a must.

BTW.... there are some nice handling coaches out there without Comfort Drive. It's not a must have. I've driven a couple of coaches that have Comfort Dive, and while it's nice (makes steering down the road easy) I wouldn't call it a deal maker or breaker. It does nothing to smooth out bumps.

Clearly "floor plan" is not my number one consideration.

... but, everything ain't for everybody!

LOL - still agreeing with you. Given that most RV will handle acceptably - for an RV it generally stands to reason that longer wheelbase, bigger tires and heavier will likely drive better. Could throw in lots of exceptions but I am suggesting that to compare all will have the running gear set to specifications.

I understand everyone has different needs. That is what makes it great. If everyone wanted the same thing it would be pretty boring and there would be no choice or no need for choice.

While our travel needs are probably not like yours we do travel considerable distances in fairly short times so do have some experience with road manners. We normally average about 5 - 600 miles a day and are fortunate in that both the 5er and the coach are very docile drivers.

I will give you your priority but will still suggest that with the available chassis choices (F53, Spartan, Freightliner and various proprietary) you should be golden if you select a model that has a good ratio of overall length to wheelbase. If you select a diesel pusher this will not be an issue.

[wredman]

how much does tire size alone impact drivability, this must be limited to 22k chassis with same length/wb - since the 22k chassis is the only one that has a tire size option.


I wonder if the tire size concern is really a lightweight chassis concern, and if these lighter weight coaches also had a long rear overhang to save the front axle weight.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by wredman

how much does tire size alone impact drivability, this must be limited to 22k chassis with same length/wb - since the 22k chassis is the only one that has a tire size option.


I wonder if the tire size concern is really a lightweight chassis concern, and if these lighter weight coaches also had a long rear overhang to save the front axle weight.

I think you may be correct. There are many myths and lack of knowledge out there. Some purchase a unit and blithely load it up with everything they need, think they need and may possibly need. Then fill up everything and drive down the road like they were driving a sports car.

Weight and balance and speed can contribute greatly into perceived handling issues. Not to say that some units do not have issues, just that if you do have issues checking a few simple things like getting the proper balance and slowing down can reduce the issues. Not what many want to hear but . . . . .

IMO the larger tires can give a better ride. All tires that are properly inflated will likely ride and drive better than tires that are not properly inflated. One of the easiest (and cheapest) things to do is weigh the axles and properly inflate the tires. Larger tires for the same weight can be properly inflated to a lower pressure giving better ride and handling characteristics.

[Betr2Trvl]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

I think you may be correct. There are many myths and lack of knowledge out there. Some purchase a unit and blithely load it up with everything they need, think they need and may possibly need. Then fill up everything and drive down the road like they were driving a sports car.

Weight and balance and speed can contribute greatly into perceived handling issues. Not to say that some units do not have issues, just that if you do have issues checking a few simple things like getting the proper balance and slowing down can reduce the issues. Not what many want to hear but . . . . .

IMO the larger tires can give a better ride. All tires that are properly inflated will likely ride and drive better than tires that are not properly inflated. One of the easiest (and cheapest) things to do is weigh the axles and properly inflate the tires. Larger tires for the same weight can be properly inflated to a lower pressure giving better ride and handling characteristics.

First going back to the prior post, from what I have seen the 22K Ford chassis is the only one that has either 19" or 22.5" wheels at this time.........

With regards to Gordon's post, I think weight distribution is a signicant issue related to handling issues, exaggerated significantly with a long rear overhang.

You create a pendulum effect (tail wagging the dog) if you have a lot of weight behind the rear axle which is also impacted by the "push / pull" leverage on the long overhang from passing truck's air bubble. Then you exaggerate the pendulum / push - pull effect with the "death grip" and fighting the coach vs. letting it settle in steering with "light hands".

The other issue an overloaded tail end can create is a light front end, which can really make handling squirrely.......

Coming back from our trip in Dec., I noticed two older gassers heading to FL I assume, with what looked to be 20' rear overhangs (yes, I am exaggerating) that it seemed the rear bumper was about a foot off the ground, and the front tires barely touching he road (yes, exaggerating a bit here too, but you get my point); I can't image how unruly the handling had to be on those rigs.

The other thing noted by Gordon is trying to drive an RV like a sports car. I read so much about "lean" on gassers - brake in a straight line to a speed appropriate for the slowest part of the corner then turn in, don't trail brake to the apex trying to slow down enough, and you'll quickly find you don't roll over as much on your outside front tire.....

Here are the specs on my coach.... I don't think you'll find a better wheel base to length ratio on any other gasser.

31SA - 24k optional GVWR (30k GCWR)
228" WB
398" OL
57% ratio

Net CCC ~3,500 (the 2k chassis upgrade from the standard 22k on 22.5" wheels nets ~1,500 CCC)

I weighed 22.5k this summer, as fully loaded as I'll ever expect the coach to be..... Including full fresh water (which we seldom drive with) but empty waste tanks.
8,420# front actual / 9000# axle
14,160# rear actual / 15,500# axle

I have ooched my tire pressures up closer to the door sticker vs. the Michelin charts (+ 5%+5#s "safety factor") with no ill effects on handling. Won't get into my "why"........

From my perspective, my coach rides and drives just fine with Sumo springs and a SafeTPlus........

Regards