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Old 01-11-2015, 09:26 AM   #29
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There was pressurized water in the system when it froze so there is a lot of thawing water in the system. At this point I would get up under there a see the water trail, make sure it isn't coming on a trail from somewhere else along the chassis. The if the shower is above that place shut it off. If it still runs the make sure the water heater is shut off and open the low point drains, drain the water heater. Otherwise you are risking a lot of damage from water. Fill jugs with water to flush and drink until you can stop somewhere long enough to find the source of the leak and fix it.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:35 AM   #30
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Sort of sounds like your cold water input to the water heater is frozen. Try to open the high pressure safety valve handle a little to see if you have pressure within the heater. If you can, put a small 1500 watt heater that has a built in fan in the wet bay. Be very careful to face the heat in a safe direction. Leave a hot water faucet partly open so as soon as the ice is free it can flow. What we do on those very cold nights is get up in the night once or twice and run the hot water to the furthest faucet. In most RV's the hot and cold water lines at various points run close together and it warms them both. Lasco makes a very nice 200 watt electric heater that has a build in fan. Works very good in the water bay.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:39 AM   #31
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Ok my degree wasn't in physics. Back to questions. Are water lines in a sleeve? Easy to pull out and replace?
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:44 AM   #32
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Ok, I have a water leak in the wall. Will insurance or warranty cover it? What is done to repair?.......I was getting ready to travel and noticed water leaking down the outside of the RV, on the outside where the water lines are located on the inside. Has anyone experienced this?


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I'm pretty sure you will have to pay for damage from freezing water lines. As for what to do, it all depends on your RV construction and design. I don't know of any designs running water line laterally through a wall, they run from floor up to fixtures inside a wall, or along an inside wall above floor. I had one TT that used the heat ductwork for a water line trace from front to back instead of under floor or along wall/floor baseboard covered by trim.
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:09 PM   #33
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I do not know what your insurance will pay. Call your insurance agent and ask. I would be surprised if the warranty people pay for the damage. Although if you had heat on and everything was working correctly you might claim a problem with the water lines being too close to an area that can freeze.
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:36 PM   #34
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I have never seen any water hoses in an rv that were in sleeves. Most are made of pex which can be cut and patched with something like sharkbite connectors. But you can't always see the water lines. For instance, I have lines that run underneath our bed near the headboard. To see those, I have to remove the mattress then the bed board. I can see some of the kitchen water hoses but it is a chore with removal of drawers and partitions. Hopefully yours will be in a visible place and that you can see the leaking joint or hole in the hose easily. The real issue is finding the leak itself.
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:37 PM   #35
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When I last went to Physics class in High School WAY back in the late 50's, there was NO WAY in HELL that hot water would freeze faster than cold water.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
None of it will freeze, its all HOT! lol We could have been in the same class.

What he needs now is some HEAT and a lot of LUCK. PMs must be done!

Open all the valves you can find to, relieve the pressure from the expanding ice.
Some times it is easier to cut the broken line and bypass with a new line routed slightly different.

Good Luck.
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Old 01-11-2015, 06:52 PM   #36
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None of it will freeze, its all HOT! lol We could have been in the same class.

What he needs now is some HEAT and a lot of LUCK. PMs must be done!

Open all the valves you can find to, relieve the pressure from the expanding ice.
Some times it is easier to cut the broken line and bypass with a new line routed slightly different.

Good Luck.

Not trying to argue but:

Hot water seems to freeze faster than cold water, known as the Mpemba effect. The effect was named after the Tanzanian student who in 1963 noticed that hot ice cream mix freezes faster than a cold one. The effect was first observed by Aristotle in the 4th century BC, then later Francis Bacon and René Descartes. Mpemba published a paper on his findings in 1969.

Theories for the Mpemba effect have included: faster evaporation of hot water, therefore reducing the volume left to freeze; formation of a frost layer on cold water, insulating it; and different concentrations of solutes such as carbon dioxide, which is driven off when the water is heated. Unfortunately the effect doesn’t always appear - cold water often does actually freeze faster than hot, as you would expect. But this Mpemba effect occurs regularly, and no one has ever been able to definitively answer why.

Now a team of physicists from the Nanyang Technological University in Singapore, led by Xi Zhang, have found evidence that it is the chemical bonds that hold water together that provide the effect. Each water molecule is composed of one oxygen atom bonded covalently to two hydrogen molecules. These bonds involve atoms sharing electrons and are well understood. The separate water molecules are also bound together by weaker forces generated by hydrogen bonds. These forces occur when a hydrogen atom from one molecule of water sits close to an oxygen atom from another.

The team now suggest it is these bonds that cause the Mpemba effect. They propose that when the water molecules are brought into close contact, a natural repulsion between the molecules causes the covalent bonds to stretch and store energy. When the liquid warms up, the hydrogen bonds stretch as the water gets less dense and the molecules move further apart.

The stretching in the hydrogen bonds allows the covalent bonds to relax and shrink somewhat, which causes them to give up their energy. The process of covalent bonds giving up their energy is essentially the same as cooling, and so warm water should in theory cool faster than cold. The team’s calculations suggest that the magnitude of the covalent bond relaxation accounts for the experimental differences in the time it takes for hot and cold water to freeze.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:12 PM   #37
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I'm with the Boy's from MIT Does hot water freeze faster than cold water? | MIT School of Engineering
As Ray,IN posted back in #23
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:30 PM   #38
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I'll "pile-on" to the MIT camp even though I didn't graduate from there.

It even makes "common sense" which I AM a graduate from the school of "Hard Knocks".

Sure hope Tom222 finds his leaks before they freeze up again and cause more damage.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:08 AM   #39
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Tom222. I know if you have a leak in your house the insurance pays for the damage but not for the leak repair. I do not know if RV insurance is the same, it is a second home you know. But the best bet is to call your insurance company to find out. The other thing is the repair. If you are a DYIer the bad part of the pex line can be cut out and replaced with a couple of connectors. I believe Home Depot or Lowes has these pex lines and all kind of connectors. Your RV dealer close to you should also have these. If you can find the crack or broke line you can fix it yourself.
Good luck and let us know, we will be here arguing about hot or cold water freezing faster. HA
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:52 AM   #40
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Ok, just an up-date:

I had a plumber friend of mind help me find the leak. We traced the leak to a fitting leak at the water heater. The water had followed the hot water pipe to a point where the water could escape. We traced the pipe and so we are assured this was the problem. So far it's been 3 days and no water leak. Water is funny, it seeks the path of least resistance.

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Old 01-16-2015, 09:13 AM   #41
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Congrats! Hope it STAYS dry.
I was camping one weekend, noticed a small puddle of water user the bathroom. Found it wet user the shower floor/pan. Found a loose fitting behind the shower faucet.
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Old 01-16-2015, 07:47 PM   #42
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I have a Fleetwood as well, not sure on your floor plan. Had the same issues once traveling in sub zero. I assume your rear furnace heats basement, but duct is on opposite site of wet bay, I extended duct across coach with flexible duct tubing, leaving it partially open on passenger side to allow heat there as well. I wrapped the outside of wet bay box with insulation and have another sheet of insulation inside bay (Lowes foil backed bubble insulation 1/4") Also mounted a 110 heater to run in extreme conditions, as well as a 12 volt small defroster heater. Have a remote temperature monitor in bay. Had water freeze in lines inside coach running along passenger side going to hot water heater. These lines run in same area as heat duct tubes, I cut open duct tubes to allow some hot air into the channel when lines run, also used a hair dryer to move hot air to thaw when they froze. I then slid pipe insulation over lines, also insulated lines by hot water heater. When extremely cold I leave lower drawers open along areas where lines run, also have a drawer under washer that allow air into hot water heater/ washer water line area. I also discovered several air leaks from passenger rear wheel well that allowed cold air to flow into area that lines ran from kitchen to bath & hot water heater. These were caulked. We travel every year in Dec or Jan from Colorado to Florida and weather can be an issue, so all this has allowed us to travel without worry. A little bit of work but haven't had an issue since.
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