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Old 12-01-2013, 07:45 AM   #43
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You buy a MH like you buy anything else! You compare and see what the market is for it. Unless you have never bought anything of valve before its no different, common sense works well!

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Old 12-01-2013, 07:58 AM   #44
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Everything new or used has a value, most financial institutions can get or tell you what the value of it and what the loan value of it is (per market conditions)
Now for the present economy in our world, it seems that it is still a buyers market(since 2008 market crash) especially for RV's , boat's, play toys. feds still have the interest rates down, and people are starting after 5 years starting to spend a bit more (play toys) So with new models coming in to the dealers (all toys and autos) is where we see the big discounts off the left overs and once the left overs are gone time to start chopping on the sticker (msrp) of the new one. A good way to get an idea when buying new is to get a value of the same model 1 year old and this will give you a idea of where you stand. NADA book on a 2013 King Aire(new) vs a 2013 King Aire used is over $200k ! ouch

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Old 12-01-2013, 08:40 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by palehorse89 View Post
... A good way to get an idea when buying new is to get a value of the same model 1 year old and this will give you a idea of where you stand. NADA book on a 2013 King Aire(new) vs a 2013 King Aire used is over $200k ! ouch
Well, for a Mountain Aire, which is an $850000 vehicle, $200000 is still just about 25% depreciation for driving it off the lot, which seems about what you'd expect.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:56 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Mr. M View Post
Well, for a Mountain Aire, which is an $850000 vehicle, $200000 is still just about 25% depreciation for driving it off the lot, which seems about what you'd expect.
It has to be one of the biggest thrills in a mans life to pull out of that lot........and has to be one of the biggest hits to his wallet and all this happens in seconds........
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:32 AM   #47
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On our rig I made the error with NADA value of starting with the base value and then checking the boxes for the various options and I used that price in the negotiations. What I didn't know at the time is that one should instead look up the original sales brochure for what comes standard for that model and only check items that are above what is already in the base price. For example there is a check box for the furnace and BTU rating that should not be checked as that is standard; only would check if the rig has an up level version of the furnace, microwave that was optional, etc.

In the end, I bought for 25% less than asking price on a 10 year old rig and sold it to a private party for $2k less 2 years later. (I did some minor upgrades in between). Not too bad of "rent" for 2 years use and the new owner got a nice rig that was well taken care of (kept in pole building) and low miles. We are back in the hunt for a new rig with a different floor plan to make it more usable with a family member that has a medical issue that just changed mobility. Bummer as we really liked our rig.

Don't rule out dealers if you find a good one. Ours had a 90 day warranty (could have extended) and I used it to have a minor water heater and fridge problem resolved. The dealer stood behind it and paid for repairs at a shop 200 miles from them, near me. The rig was consignment on their lot.

While it may be cheaper if you buy in winter (I did in November) be aware that you may not uncover issues until the season. We camped in January overnight in what later turned out to be an ice storm so that we could check out all systems. (Had checked out water system on a warmer week already).
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #48
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What constitutes a deal?

Someone else earlier in this thread expressed the smug satisfaction of getting their price when buyers thought it was worth less. In real estate or in car sales or in RVs, the big question is always what is an item really worth? Some homes/RVs sit on the market for years... clearly overpriced, while others are sold in less than a day... probably underpriced. It's the area in the middle that everyone argues over. So the question is: were the smug sellers right? or just lucky to have found suckers willing to pay their price?

Buyers and sellers, being individuals, have very different ideas of what an item is worth, usually heavily influenced by emotion: attachment or arrogance for sellers, the value of a dream or frugal pride (getting a better deal than anyone else) for buyers. But only when buyer and seller AGREE on a price does a deal happen.

People are randomly distributed in a bell curve, which means the bulk of sellers and buyers will cluster around mean values and have a certain spread (standard deviation). The sellers' mean will be higher than the buyers' mean, but the two curves will overlap quite a bit. The smaller the market, the more important it is to avoid the skinny ends of the bell curves where the odds of finding anyone are slim. The curves matter when setting a price: for sellers, to exclude as few potential buyers as possible, and for buyers, to make sure you'll find at least one dealer/private party willing to sell.

But in the negotiation phase, the curves no longer matter, just the gap between the seller's bottom line price and the buyer's not to exceed price. The greater the gap between the seller's and buyer's "values", the less likely a deal is to happen, and a seller demanding top dollar is looking for a rather rare buyer willing to pay his price, and a lot of luck will be needed for a deal to happen. The converse is also true: a buyer looking to pay an unrealistically low price will need a lot of luck to find that rare seller willing to go down to his price.

So the bottom line is, be realistic. The more unrealistic you are as a buyer or seller, the more luck will be required to find that buyer or seller you're looking for. And just because you luck out and find that rare sucker doesn't mean you were right! Though I'm pretty sure no one will ever convince you of your wrongness.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:14 AM   #49
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I'm going out today and buy a $52500.00 Diesel because my Duramax gets 10.8 towing and 15-17 ety. I'll show everyone! I can then tell them I get 30MPG and at leawswt 20 towing in the mountain states. Right and everyone who owns a Prius gets 52 MPG. We are on our 3rd one and it gets 47 and the best I have ever done is 52 on a 600 mi RT by barely touching the accelerator, coasting to stops and staying below 65.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:05 PM   #50
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Well my 2007 GMC Sierra 2500 gets 23 MPG. That's 15 on the highway & 8 in town
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:03 AM   #51
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We just bought a new coach three weeks ago. I've bought a LOT of cars and several RV's through the years. My most recent purchase was pretty simple. I knew what my trade was worth if I sold it private party, but was realistic about what it was worth as a trade in. By not being unreasonable about my trade in, it gives the dealer a little wiggle room.

In a good economy, the dealers were doing 25% - 30% on motor homes. That disappeared for awhile. It seems to be back and people are seeing those numbers again. I read through several posts and saw that people were getting 25% to a best of 29.2% on a new Newmar.

I took 26% off of the MSRP, I multiplied that by 10% which is the DMV and sales tax in my area and added the two together. I took that total and subtracted my reasonable trade in value of my old coach. I wrote the number on a NADA printout of my coach's value and sat down with the dealer. This particular dealer has a reputation for being VERY fair and we discussed numbers. He knew I was a savvy buyer and presented me with his best number which was $200.00 less than mine. We were both happy and signed on the dotted line.

Many will play all types of games, but you just need to be knowledgeable and REALISTIC of the prices, especially your trade in, and make your deal. I often find those that walk away and argue for hours and play games will eventually buy a coach, but usually lose any good will to future extras from the dealer. Remember, the dealer will never lose money in a sale, no matter what he says or how many games you play.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:10 AM   #52
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First of all never buy new, unless you are committed to that one rv until death do you part or be ready to take a bath on it when you trade or sell it.

Second NADA value are not realistic but if you are trading, NADA for theirs and yours isn't a bad start to get a difference.

Third never fall in love with one unit, there are lots more out there same model and floor plan so shop, walk away, shop, walk away, shop.
These of course are IMHO. Good luck, happy camping.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:37 AM   #53
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The unit we bought was a unit that Winnebago had compted (which they do annually) to their western reps. After the reps used it for a year taking it around to RV shows and rallies, it was taken back to the factory and gone thru, then farmed out to a dealer. The unit had 20,000 miles on it (not even broke in yet), so I go it at a used price, but because if had a Mfgr's license plate on it when the reps had it the unit had never been titled so the bank considered it a new veh and got a better interest rate on it. Nice to pick up a unit that all the bugs, issues, problems had already been taken care of by the factory.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:25 AM   #54
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I'm on my sixth coach and as a proud "bottom-dweller" here are my answers.

Originally Posted by Mr. M View Post
Did you time your purchase to your advantage?
No - You have to take your time and be ready to move when the right seller or deal comes along.

Originally Posted by Mr. M View Post
How did you avoid some of the dealer ploys to grab more cash?
Dealer?!?!!?!?!?!?!? Never use a dealer, they are middlemen who inflate the price and add nothing of value to the actual motorhome.

Originally Posted by Mr. M View Post
What was your strategy going into negotiations?
Depends upon whom you are buying it from. NOTE: This also assumes that the coach is basically in almost new condition.

From the bank - they have access to NADA wholesale prices, offer 10-12% less than wholesale "in the area" you are buying it.

From the wholesale auction - KNOW the highest price you will pay for that coach and don't go above, many times dealers have a negotiated deal with a buyer ahead of the auction and if they are bidding on your unit the price will get silly/stupid.

From a private party - NOTE: Many private parties have a love affair with "their" coach and value it way to high. Weed them out, look for people who are pricing their coaches fairly and have "OBO", "need to sell" or "motivated seller", etc, etc. I tell them that I am interested in their coach and it looks very nice. I tell them I have cash and would be interested in buying it TODAY for X amount (which is very close to the price I want). Most times they will balk at the offer so I tell them to think about it and give me call if they can't move their coach.

Twice a person has hemmed and hawed about the price and we have made a deal because they needed out within 24 hours. Another two times I have received calls back, one 2 weeks later and one almost 3 months later and then we made the deal. NOTE: I never stopped looking during these times because I always expect that no-one will every call back.

Originally Posted by Mr. M View Post
How did you get your dealer to accept your low offer?
Repeat after me, "I only use dealers to LOOK at units, I never buy from them."

Originally Posted by Mr. M View Post
Did you use a trade in in your dealings?
NO, NO, NO, trading in is like buying from a dealer instead of getting it up the . . . . . once you get it up the . . . . . twice. You sell your coach privately, just like you bought your new one. But this time instead of being a bottom dweller you the middle of the pack dweller. You will be surprised at how often people will offer you more than what you would take for it.

Originally Posted by Mr. M View Post
Any other advice for novice RV buyers?
Of course the absolute obvious, NEVER buy new, but you wouldn't do that anyways since you aren't using a dealer.

1) Buy 4 years or older (the worst depreciation is in years 1-3)
2) CASH is king, use the power of it.
3) If you don't know a dealer to get access to dealer auctions, talk to a small used car dealer, tell him you want to buy a MH with your cash and you will pay him $1000 finders fee just to use his license.
4) Talk to banks for repo's, tell them you can pay cash before auction.
5) Be prepared to travel, out of 6 coaches I've bought the closest one to my house was 660 miles away the farthest was 2190. NOTE: A friend of mine lucked out and got the exact coach he wanted at the greatest deal I have ever seen, 31 miles away from him, so it can happen.
6) Generally the farther south you go the cheaper the prices are.
7) Narrow your search down to 3 models and then keep checking the internet, my average is about 9 months to find and purchase your coach at a great price.

Hope this helps and as always JMO YMMV.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:44 PM   #55
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I wouldn't say I beat up the dealer at all. I got 20% off MSRP on a new 2011 soon after it came out. I had researched a decent value for my 2008. I put in that offer and they accepted it after a while.
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:40 AM   #56
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Hey Mr M, Good thread you've got going here. I've read through it, but don't really feel like the answers are getting at your question. I have a similar question and thread started, but really feel like there's a void in useable information for the buyer.

I've done "my homework" and have talked to a number of dealers, but don't feel like I'm getting the straight scoop. I have been very cordial, but firm. I've walked away, but it seems like they've covered that one in their play book - another sucker is born every minute. Anyway, I digress.

Somewhere in my internet trolling, I found a rule of thumb that went something like this; you take the base MSRP and multiply by 0.69, add the total options multiplied by 0.713, add destination to arrive at dealer cost. I just wish there was someplace that I could verify this.

That being the case, you then need to decide what is a fair profit to pay the dealer. Based on my crude calculations - it feels like dealers are in the 10-30k range. 10k feels fair to me, but I'm not convinced that I should jump at that number yet, because I know there are manufacture incentives, quarter rebates, etc... that I want to better understand.

Any of you savy RV buyers got some 411 on that???

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