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Old 04-05-2015, 05:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by rodz View Post
There should be quality control inspections during construction
and a complete inspection after completion. Plus another from the dealer before delivery. I'm talking about every part. I had several things that should have been seen during the build. Like a window that wouldn't close because it over lapped the frame. There's no way the installer could not have known it was installed wrong.
maybe you are on to something there.... when I build a house every major step is inspected and signed off by a county/city official......

unbelievable the way some of the major things are done...wiring, plumbing
ac/ heater...

maybe the inspector could pre sign off on covered up systems...

you can build a house for cheeper than a motorhome....

I would amagine Fleetwood manufactured homes are inspected???? why m not motorhomes...
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR View Post
maybe you are on to something there.... when I build a house every major step is inspected and signed off by a county/city official......

unbelievable the way some of the major things are done...wiring, plumbing
ac/ heater...

maybe the inspector could pre sign off on covered up systems...

you can build a house for cheeper than a motorhome....

I would amagine Fleetwood manufactured homes are inspected???? why m not motorhomes...
I worked at a few new car dealerships in the 70s. Cars were horrible and it didn't bother the manufacturer to send out a pos.
They would leave it up to the selling dealer to repair them. So many things were deliberately overlooked. As the customer would find problems then they were corrected. I've seen some things delivered to the dealer that were unbelievable. Fortunately a new car now has so many quality checks it's unlikely you will find anything wrong when you take delivery. Sometimes things show up later for warranty repairs. There's no reason the mh industry can't do the same. It would save them money in the long run by fewer warranty repairs and it's just good business.
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodz View Post
There should be quality control inspections during construction
and a complete inspection after completion. Plus another from the dealer before delivery. I'm talking about every part. I had several things that should have been seen during the build. Like a window that wouldn't close because it over lapped the frame. There's no way the installer could not have known it was installed wrong.
They do all that QC/QA in the aerospace, and medical device industry.

However, in the RV industry only approximately 30% to 40% of what you pay for a new coach, (at retail), actually goes to the manufacturing and assembly of it. That's where QC/QA can affect the coach.

The other 60% to 70% of what you paid goes mostly to the dealership, and then there is the manufacturer's margin. So, unless they all agree to change their business models, it ain't gonna happen.

The RV industry needs to adopt the Toyota Production Method, also known as Lean Manufacturing. That way they "empower" each employee to be accountable for the quality of the product, and not inspectors.
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:58 PM   #32
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The difference is the building codes. A house inspector will not flag a window that does not close as the building codes are lax in that area, however try to cheat on the foundation (chassis) and you will be written up.

Home inspectors are not paid directly by the home buyer but are taken from building permits and general revenue. An inspector on the assembly line is applied in direct cost. If you want that kind of inspection and remedial action step up to a Marathon. Not saying I condone the quality the manufacturers are putting out but I spent some time with a Marathon owner in Pamona. He was on his way back to the factory with a large punch list.

Just saying we have to be patient and persistent with issues like this.

I recall the automotive industry which has more regulation went through a period when Ralph Nader was the salvation for the buyer. The big 3 have all gone through some very difficult quality times and were finally brought to the quality table by imported cars.

I agree we should be expecting more when we purchase anything. Unfortunately we have lowered our standards. IMO we teach mediocrity early in life. Children have to feel good about themselves so we all to often say good work when it is not. We hope they will improve but how can they when we just told them it was good.

Add that attitude to a manufacturing line where the only incentive is production and a possible bonus. I recall one of the automakers advertising their quality control was a red button at each work station where the worker could stop the assembly line if there was an issue. I wonder how many times the button was pushed for a minor issue and how long the worker lasted if the button was pushed?

Anyway enough rant. This is one of those circular arguments that can last for a long while during which we can debate how to get champagne quality for a beer budget.
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:00 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by rodz View Post
I worked at a few new car dealerships in the 70s. Cars were horrible and it didn't bother the manufacturer to send out a pos.
They would leave it up to the selling dealer to repair them. So many things were deliberately overlooked. As the customer would find problems then they were corrected. I've seen some things delivered to the dealer that were unbelievable. Fortunately a new car now has so many quality checks it's unlikely you will find anything wrong when you take delivery. Sometimes things show up later for warranty repairs. There's no reason the mh industry can't do the same. It would save them money in the long run by fewer warranty repairs and it's just good business.
as anal as I was when building a home.....used to build street rods..
the inspector would now and then "Catch" something...

still being it is what it is I see shabby to put it nicely wiring-plumbing-framing and chassis construction on boats and motorhomes... and no one looks after them
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:33 PM   #34
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Something elses to consider is tire pressure s , load distribution and most of al ------ people dont know how to drive! ok some do but the others max out their tire pressure s load all their junk where ever it will squease in , drive with one finger on the steering wheel and the other hand holding a drink or cell phone then complain about how the coach handles. Maybe the dealers instead of putting these useless aftermarket stabilizer s on should instead teach rvers how to treat their coach for optimal handling.
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:50 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by BeachDude View Post
They do all that QC/QA in the aerospace, and medical device industry.

However, in the RV industry only approximately 30% to 40% of what you pay for a new coach, (at retail), actually goes to the manufacturing and assembly of it. That's where QC/QA can affect the coach.

The other 60% to 70% of what you paid goes mostly to the dealership, and then there is the manufacturer's margin. So, unless they all agree to change their business models, it ain't gonna happen.

The RV industry needs to adopt the Toyota Production Method, also known as Lean Manufacturing. That way they "empower" each employee to be accountable for the quality of the product, and not inspectors.
as is ,..lets just say Fleetwood..

a dealers cost of 72k MSRP's around 100k... then you see them advertised at 75k...25k discount...


dealers rip the trade... people that pay msrp.. can't sell with out a 40% loss...

yeah, there are the exceptions but rule of thumb
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:51 PM   #36
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I think its really embarrassing the quality that RVs are manufactured and shipped out with. I found major bolts in my main slide completely backed out, switches wired backwards (slide went out when you pushed the in button) and when crawling under the MH found this thing just hanging underneath with some wires and hoses surrounding it.





I guess it should make me feel better when I hear the same complaints from people who spent 2 and 3 times what my coach cost complaining about the same thing. But it really doesn't. It means the RV industry is working on such slim margins that they leave it to their customers to be the final inspectors. I shouldn't find metal shavings and sawdust in my brand new Motor Home. I shouldn't find a rats nest of wires under the dash that look like they were thrown together. I know i can keep brining it to the dealer to get these things fixed, but since I'm a working stiff and that has to be done during the week its a real inconvenience and time sink. I wonder if they would start doing higher quality work if we could start charging them shop time and milage every time we had to bring something back due to shoddy work.
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:08 PM   #37
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How many here think their new coach should work right when they get it????

Quote:
Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR View Post
Seems like everyone here is fine with chassis' that sway , ride harsh, need CHF.. shocks.. sumo springs.. air bags and whatever else...





should these things come with it when its new??? I mean really??? it comes with wrong or bad shocks??



I've bought a bunch of new cars through out the years... never ever had to do CHF to any of them to keep them on the road



and the sells men have the same answer..."it won't ride like this after you go home and load all your stuff up" they're right,.. now it over loaded and rides worse







so is this the ok ,it is what it is...



I get flamed here because I'm willing to stand up and say... my coach rides like crap...

I don't think part of fully enjoing my motor home should require major adjustment in suspension parts and enhancements



I think part of the coach builders responsabilty should be to make sure the

chassis is safe and tuned to the load....





back in the 70's and 80's they would build a box on the chassis that was over weight empty... you had to add a leaf to the rear first thing....



then I heard the feds stepped in and required the unloaded weigh to be posted ........



so what say you....



oh just so you all know ... I'm wear'n my fire suit....flame away

They can come with it when new!
There are coaches a level or so up available with great ride quality from the get go. I bought one 5 years old.
You seem to prefer new ones. Go for it.
The ones that don't ride well, will not unless the price goes up for the added stuff, or the CHF (C for cheap) is installed after the sale.
Pay more, or modify to your requirements like you did with the one you have. Or buy up, and used, ready to roll.
Why not just do it? After 6 rigs in 7 months, you are used to depreciation.
Just my view from the saddle
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Old 04-05-2015, 09:36 PM   #38
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They can come with it when new!
There are coaches a level or so up available with great ride quality from the get go. I bought one 5 years old.
You seem to prefer new ones. Go for it.
The ones that don't ride well, will not unless the price goes up for the added stuff, or the CHF (C for cheap) is installed after the sale.
Pay more, or modify to your requirements like you did with the one you have. Or buy up, and used, ready to roll.
Why not just do it? After 6 rigs in 7 months, you are used to depreciation.
Just my view from the saddle
where is this 6 rigs in 7 mo come from and what does it have to do with any thing/..

you wanna put the blame on me for fords wheels falling off???

we kept our 26'r for 53,000 miles... wife makes 100k a year and I sold 750,000 worth of debt free realestate last year... wife want s a bigger coach...so she gets it...I get drug though the coals by ford with motorhome after motorhome with wheels falling off.... then because I say whats happening... I some kind of bad guy...just when to this pride of ownership set in...

just cause I don't drink the kool aid cause I'm up side down in a 10 yr old coach....things should work when you buy it... not a laundry list and 3 mo. in the shop

people are so afaid of others laughing at them that they just bite the bullet

junk and shody work is what it is..

you go buy the cheapest car or truck made and the stuff works when you get it... it might not last long...but t you get what you pay for...

no where does it say in a disclaimer that many items are know to not work on your new motor home ... but don't worry... that's how all of them are
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Old 04-05-2015, 09:40 PM   #39
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They can come with it when new!
There are coaches a level or so up available with great ride quality from the get go. I bought one 5 years old.
You seem to prefer new ones. Go for it.
The ones that don't ride well, will not unless the price goes up for the added stuff, or the CHF (C for cheap) is installed after the sale.
Pay more, or modify to your requirements like you did with the one you have. Or buy up, and used, ready to roll.
Why not just do it? After 6 rigs in 7 months, you are used to depreciation.
Just my view from the saddle
oha and I was wondering about the cleator bar... did AJ buy that from you,... and did you buy it back????
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Old 04-05-2015, 09:53 PM   #40
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For starters if the price went to list instead of 30% off for a start then we could bitch about quality with an expectation they should fix it. As it stands it's there really is not enough money in the deal to cover the inspections and repairs at the factory before shipping. Poor quality is the price we pay for cheap deals.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:03 PM   #41
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In a past career, I have seen multi-multi million dollar yachts where prior to delivery, the punch list was as thick as War and Peace. Fortunately, I guess our coach was made on a Wednesday and had a great dealer as the list was only a couple of lines long and fixed right away.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:06 PM   #42
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oha and I was wondering about the cleator bar... did AJ buy that from you,... and did you buy it back????
I think it went like this...
http://bigbugnews.com/main.asp?Secti...rticleID=53394
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