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Old 09-22-2013, 02:17 PM   #15
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I can not say that I have ever really done the math to figure out a DEF usage per mile ... but bottom line is that any way you buy it is such a small percentage of the cost (relative to diesel fuel) that I don't pay much attention to it. Ballpark estimate is that on my last trip this summer we clocked about 1800 miles, and I put in ~3 of the 2.5 gal containers. that comes out to ~250 - 300 miles per gallon. On that trip I had tried the approach of carrying 2 empty DEF containers (TerraCair brand) and filling them from the bulk dispenser (like other's, my DEF tank is on the wrong side of the coach :-( ). I usually use the Pilot stations, and have also not seen the magnetic interlock on the bulk dispenser nozzle....
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Butte64 View Post
I have not found a truck stop that does not have the magnetic pump block but I have been limited to SC and GA so far.
Any way to tell just by a quick whether or not they have the lock?
Never saw one or had to deal with one, so I don't know. My 15 gal tank is poly and so is the lid and close mechanism, so If I hit one, I'd probably not be able to fill the tank. With the standard fill points on coaches on the passenger side in most RV's and the pumps set to fill on the driver side at truck stops, carrying DEF in containers is a much easier process. The price for the bulk is a definite plus too.
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:46 PM   #17
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Like PDR John, with the same engine, its using 2 to 2.5 gallons per 1k miles and I too fill a 2.5 gallon container at the truck stops. Have never encountered a magnetic pump lock.
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:08 PM   #18
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In just over 23,000 we've put in 57 gal. That's pushing a 42,000 coach and pulling 6,000 worth of toad.
That comes to 403.5 miles per gallon of DEF.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:29 PM   #19
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I disagree with the 2gls. DEF per 100 miles. I've driven at least 500 miles and used 1/4 of a DEF tank, tank being 10 gl., and @ the 2 gl. per 100 miles I should have used a full tank. The amount of DEF used is directly related to how much Idle time, and slow/city driving you do. The DEF is used in the Re-Gen cycle of the system to burn out the soot that's built up in the exhaust filter - the more idle the more soot, the more highway driving the less soot - less soot lest Re-Gen.
A couple of corrections are needed here. There are 2 systems in the current after treatment system. 1 is a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), and the other is the Selective catalytic Reduction catalyst (SCR). Diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) is used in the SCR all the time at rate of 2% of diesel fuel consumed via a dosing valve. So if the engine is running, you are injecting a proportionate amount of DEF. The SCR catalyzes the particulate that the DPF doesn't catch. The DPF stores a large portion of the particulate created from diesel combustion. When the engine computer detects that the flow through the DPF is less than a pre-programmed value, the ECM will perform a regen on the DPF. Basically, a little bit of fuel is used to raise the temperature of the DPF to the point where it will burn off the particulate stored in the DPF. These newer engines should be idled as little as possible. A simple solution is to use the high idle setting whenever possible as this will produce less particulate.

Additionally, there are several manufacturers that have the DEF fill on the driver's side, usually they dont have a side mounted radiator. Due to the attributes of DEF, the tank needs to be in close proximity to the SCR as DEF freezes at 11 degrees. The tank has a heater, but the lines do not. Too long of a hose will allow the DEF to freeze in the hose. Due to the side mounted radiator, the aftertreatment system is located on the passenger side. Spartan is working on putting a DEF fill on the driver's side, but this is not in production yet. I haven't heard if Freightliner is doing the same.

As previously stated by me, the amount of DEF consumed is approximately 2 gals of DEF for 100 gals of diesel consumed. NOT 100 miles driven. A rough estimate is 400 mpg of DEF. It is really a minimal cost for the benefits achieved for a cleaner planet!
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:13 AM   #20
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The newer Palazzos have DEF on the driver side. I don't know if that applies to all Freightliner XCS chassis.

Thanks for the interesting information. The freeze point information gives another consideration to winerization. How do you winterize the DEF system to prevent hose and fitting splitting?
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:14 PM   #21
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Just filled up over the weekend. over the past 2 years, I average ~ 250-280 miles to the gallon of DEF. I've been averaging 9-9.1 miles to gallon of diesel.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:02 AM   #22
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Just filled up over the weekend. over the past 2 years, I average ~ 250-280 miles to the gallon of DEF. I've been averaging 9-9.1 miles to gallon of diesel.
You might want to talk to your chassis manufacturer or Cummins about your DEF use. That's over 3% DEF to fuel, or more than 150% of Cummins estimate of DEF to fuel usage.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:33 AM   #23
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Does later models of Cat use this?
No. Cat stopped building on-road diesel engines when the EPA requirement for a diesel emissions reduction system took effect.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:33 PM   #24
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How about a 2008 Monaco Knight 360 , DEF?
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Old 11-16-2013, 02:18 PM   #25
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I have always refilled my DEF tank at a truck stop, the amount used is related to how much idling the engine has done. I have never read the box of DEF and I have a dumb question, we are storing ours North this year, subject to freezing, is there enough urea to prevent freezing, and at what temperature is it good to? It does contain 67% water and I know the urea has some antifreeze properties.
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:49 PM   #26
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It will freeze. It will also thaw in the spring.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:20 PM   #27
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I have always refilled my DEF tank at a truck stop, the amount used is related to how much idling the engine has done. I have never read the box of DEF and I have a dumb question, we are storing ours North this year, subject to freezing, is there enough urea to prevent freezing, and at what temperature is it good to? It does contain 67% water and I know the urea has some antifreeze properties.

DEF will freeze at 12 degrees Fahrenheit. There is no additive you can ad to lower the freeze point. The good news is freezing will not affect the DEF fluid.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:59 PM   #28
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Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) is an emissions control liquid required by modern diesel engines. It is injected into the exhaust stream. DEF is never added to diesel fuel. It is a non-hazardous solution of 32.5% urea in 67.5% de-ionized water. DEF is clear and colorless, and looks exactly like water. It has a slight smell of ammonia, similar to some home cleaning agents. DEF is used in by Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) technology to remove harmful NOx emissions from diesel engines. DEF is stored in a tank on board the vehicle, and injected into the exhaust stream by a metering system at a rate of 2% of diesel consumption volume (4–6% within Europe). This low dosing rate ensures long fluid refill intervals and minimises the tank's obtrusion into vehicle packaging space. An electronic control unit adjusts the addition of fluid in accordance with such parameters as engine operating temperature and speed. Diesel exhaust fluid is offered to consumers through a variety of quantities by manufacturers ranging from containers of it for single or repeated small usage, up to bulk carriers for consumers that require a large amount of DEF. It is recommended that DEF be stored in a cool, dry, and well-ventilated area that is out of direct sunlight. Purchase Sources: 2.5 gal @ Walmart $11.97 Pilot Flying J claims to have the cheapest DEF prices Cummins Dealers Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Usage Calculator: Fleetguard Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Usage Calculator


I,ve heard shelf life of def is 6 months, rue or false?
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