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Old 03-06-2014, 09:41 AM   #43
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The problem with the question is the original poster used a scenario that the driver of the RV does not have an option. It does not matter how fast you can stop if a vehicle pulls in front of you and slams on the brakes you slam on yours and you either stop in time or you hit them. Does not really matter how much traction your tires have, how good your brakes work, whether or not you have abs, etc. Those are questions you might need answers to when you are making the conscientious decision on how fast to drive, how close to follow etc. Someone pulling in front of you and cutting you off is not something you can plan for and need the characteristics of your vehicle.
That is exactly it, he was asking a question to see what experiences or knowledge was out there for the exact scenario. He had a close call and wanted to learn more to be safe from such. I think instead he got more tiger wagging that he needs to slow down or something. Stuff happens still and I think the original post put forth a pretty good question, but a very hard one that can really be answered. Some interesting replies though.

I can however answer the traction question for the photo of the coach above….it now has zero traction.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:54 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzler View Post

That is exactly it, he was asking a question to see what experiences or knowledge was out there for the exact scenario. He had a close call and wanted to learn more to be safe from such. I think instead he got more tiger wagging that he needs to slow down or something. Stuff happens still and I think the original post put forth a pretty good question, but a very hard one that can really be answered. Some interesting replies though.

I can however answer the traction question for the photo of the coach above….it now has zero traction.
If the op gets the answer to the question he asks, it will still not help him while he rolls down the road safely. If you are driving 55 mph in a 30,000 lb MH and someone cuts in front of you from another lane and slams on their brakes, there WILL be a collision!

I drive my motorhome with the full knowledge it handles, swerves, brakes, like a shopping cart full of bowling balls. When on a highway with constant merging traffic I stay one lane over from the right lane. I try and always drive with an assured clear distance. If I am on the road long enough, eventually there will be a situation I can't avoid.

I have no data to back this up, but if I was a betting man, I would bet that 99% of all RV accidents happen while traveling under 20 mph. Making turns, parking, backing up.

I could be wrong, but I think instead of slamming on brakes from speeds over 35, and practicing slalom maneuvers, time would be better spent practicing and learning turning radius, making turns, backing up and parking.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:54 AM   #45
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tiger wagging? oops, I meant finger wagging.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:56 AM   #46
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I have no data to back this up, but if I was a betting man, I would bet that 99% of all RV accidents happen while traveling under 20 mph. Making turns, parking, backing up.

I could be wrong, but I think instead of slamming on brakes from speeds over 35, and practicing slalom maneuvers, time would be better spent practicing and learning turning radius, making turns, backing up and parking.
That is a very good point! Learning where your 4 corners are is super important, along with height. Seat time is the best.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:15 PM   #47
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I think that the conversation here has broken my premise down to 2 scenarios:

#1 As I go through a wet cloverleaf turn, how much traction do I really have in hand, and can I feel it lose grip gently so that I know where the limit is? Sometimes that limit can be below the typical 25 or 35 mph. It would be unfortunate to slide into the curbing or guardrail just because I didn't realize that I was right on the edge of grip.

#2 As discussed, if someone does dive in front of me while I am braking, do I have enough room to stop? My options are to stay on the brakes, or swerve. It is a split second decision, made from knowing how fast my rig can stop versus how well it can cut. Knowing what to do could turn a disaster into just a close call.

It's an easy decision in my cars or my pickup. I would like to feel the same ability in my Motorhome. I'm sure that with time and miles I will figure it out.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:34 PM   #48
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>>>>>>......How much grip.....<<<<

Apart from a basic commitment to Newton's laws, I think this is an impossible comparison. In my former world it would be very much like trying to compare the performance characteristics of an aerobatic competition aircraft to a 747 freighter. The two are designed to different standards to serve very different purposes. There's simply no comparison outside the most general factors. The same principle applies to disparate land vehicles.

The operator behaviors that bridge the gap are mass management, anticipation, and dynamic attention to detail. Each vehicle requires all three, but in vastly differing degrees and different ratios. If you attempt to operate one like the other the result will not be satisfactory.
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:36 PM   #49
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I think that the conversation here has broken my premise down to 2 scenarios:

#1 As I go through a wet cloverleaf turn, how much traction do I really have in hand, and can I feel it lose grip gently so that I know where the limit is? Sometimes that limit can be below the typical 25 or 35 mph. It would be unfortunate to slide into the curbing or guardrail just because I didn't realize that I was right on the edge of grip.

#2 As discussed, if someone does dive in front of me while I am braking, do I have enough room to stop? My options are to stay on the brakes, or swerve. It is a split second decision, made from knowing how fast my rig can stop versus how well it can cut. Knowing what to do could turn a disaster into just a close call..
As an old fire safety officer I investigated a few big rig incidents. I learned the hard way one morning when we went down a freeway ramp and found black ice in a 42,000 38' engine. We did a full 360 at about 30 mph and everyone was very happy to have seat belts on. My engineer did everything correct and still was amazed that after a full clockwise circle we slid into the gravel on the drivers side and instantly corrected and came to a sudden bounce and then slowed down real fast. I got on radio and yelled black ice on blacktop ramps SLOW way down. We found a dozen cars who were not so lucky. My driver kept light pressure on throttle stayed off the brakes and steared with the rig. It felt like we would high side and flip when we slid into the shoulder but I doubt the right wheels ever came off the pavement. Took all afternoon to get the compartments back in order.....

Report said air ride, slow speed, duals, smooth operation, no panic kept us out of major trouble. The cars were going faster lighter and spun more than one time and hit the brakes and made it worse.

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Old 03-06-2014, 02:57 PM   #50
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I haven't tried turning donuts but I have locked it down and no skid marks.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:24 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by PushedAround View Post
I think that the conversation here has broken my premise down to 2 scenarios:

#1 As I go through a wet cloverleaf turn, how much traction do I really have in hand, and can I feel it lose grip gently so that I know where the limit is? Sometimes that limit can be below the typical 25 or 35 mph. It would be unfortunate to slide into the curbing or guardrail just because I didn't realize that I was right on the edge of grip.

#2 As discussed, if someone does dive in front of me while I am braking, do I have enough room to stop? My options are to stay on the brakes, or swerve. It is a split second decision, made from knowing how fast my rig can stop versus how well it can cut. Knowing what to do could turn a disaster into just a close call.

It's an easy decision in my cars or my pickup. I would like to feel the same ability in my Motorhome. I'm sure that with time and miles I will figure it out.
I feel in most of these rigs, you would not feel the grip go away not all of a sudden in a turn. There would be a "gentle feeling" of lose of traction. The trouble would be getting it back if it was ice or just really slick. Brake is a bad discussion on any vehicle if you lose traction. The weight of the rig wants to keep pushing in a straight line, so if you get caught with more speed than traction, it can be hard to get back. Also along with braking, pulling your foot off the accelerator completely and suddenly is like putting the brake on. Most large trucks and coaches, will want to push (under steer) in this situation. In normal situations, you can feel the safe speed by the body roll in the corner. Obviously you don't want to come in a lean it way over, as it will feel pretty uncomfortable for you and anyone with you. My wife yells at me, that is my gauge. In dry the body roll is more of an issue than traction. In slippery, as someone said, you have to use you head (lack of better words) and calculate a safe speed based on the conditions you know to be there or possibly there.

Senario two is a hard one. If I knew I was not going to avoid the obstacle, all I would do is scrub as must speed as possible before the impact, or ditch if there was a safer place than the out come of the impact. I can tell you, you would be surprised how hard one can swerve these trucks, but the over steer is harder to handle than in a normal street car. One year I had the old Monaco that we bought to use for a summer of racing in a country where we could not bring our hauler. We had some fun with that thing and did slides and almost donuts. Couldn't actually get a donut out of it. It would lose traction, then gain too much to finish as it slowed down in the slide. Perhaps if we could get more speed? We couldn't believe how well the thing stayed together. But this was in a dry dirt field. As many said though, each model and style of coach is going to be different. The more you drive it, the better you will get to know it. Here is hoping none of us ever learn where the limit ends!
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:22 PM   #52
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