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Old 12-03-2013, 03:47 PM   #15
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The tech at Camping World is right, very seldom is there a coach built that when engine is running both chassis and coach (house) are not being charged. It is usually the other way around, when plugged in or generator is running, house batteries are being charged but chassis batteries are not. I own a Monaco product, and most are set up that way. The upper priced coaches have a BIRD system, or you can purchase after market products like Trilk L Start, so when you have access to 120V electric, your chassis (starting) batteries are being charged.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:28 AM   #16
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Chuck is correct in that most coaches charge the house bank from the alternator but many do not charge the chassis bank from the charger. My earlier post had this backwards and I knew it after rereading it

For those that don't have a BIRD, you can add a trickle charger or a BIRD. Before going down the path of the BIRD generally installed by Monaco and others, I recommend you look at this product designed for the marine environment from a leader in marine electronics.

ML-ACR Automatic Charging Relay with Manual Control - 12V DC 500A - Blue Sea Systems

It always puzzles me why some RV manufacturers think they need to reinvent the wheel. When it comes to DC power plants and their related charging systems the marine industry has much more experience and have done well in perfecting their systems. The Automatic Charging Relay I provided the link for is much more robust, smaller, and more capable than some, if not many, of the BIRD systems installed by RV manufacturers.
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Old 12-04-2013, 09:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImagineIF View Post
Chuck is correct in that most coaches charge the house bank from the alternator but many do not charge the chassis bank from the charger. My earlier post had this backwards and I knew it after rereading it

For those that don't have a BIRD, you can add a trickle charger or a BIRD. Before going down the path of the BIRD generally installed by Monaco and others, I recommend you look at this product designed for the marine environment from a leader in marine electronics.

ML-ACR Automatic Charging Relay with Manual Control - 12V DC 500A - Blue Sea Systems

It always puzzles me why some RV manufacturers think they need to reinvent the wheel. When it comes to DC power plants and their related charging systems the marine industry has much more experience and have done well in perfecting their systems. The Automatic Charging Relay I provided the link for is much more robust, smaller, and more capable than some, if not many, of the BIRD systems installed by RV manufacturers.

Here HERE, Gil. BANG ON!!!! I put this relay in (the one you provided the link) just so I would have CONTROL on what was doing what when. I TOTALLY agree that this is a MUCH better relay and less expensive than the one that was in my MH.
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:42 AM   #18
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Monkey Run, what RV do you have?
I have an Allegro Bus. My batteries went dead when on the inverter charger so I tested the system and found that the chassis batteries are not charged when plugged into shore power. My new marine two bank charger just arrived from Defender Marine, $75 total cost including shipping. The reason I went with this over an ACR us due to wanting a sensing/charging wire for each battery. I caught mine on sale.


ProMariner ProSport 20 Battery Charger
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:55 PM   #19
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Monkey Run, your house bank is charged by the inverter/charger. Yout ProMarine xharger will charge the chassis bank and what other battery? Just curious. I see that ProMarine will regulate charge current between the batteries being charged. What isn't clear is what it does to a fully charged battery when the other is still being charged. It should switch to float charge at 13.4V or so, but it can't until the other battery is charged. Maybe it disconnects until the other battery is fully charged, it just doesn't say.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:45 PM   #20
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Monkey Run, your house bank is charged by the inverter/charger. Yout ProMarine xharger will charge the chassis bank and what other battery? Just curious. I see that ProMarine will regulate charge current between the batteries being charged. What isn't clear is what it does to a fully charged battery when the other is still being charged. It should switch to float charge at 13.4V or so, but it can't until the other battery is charged. Maybe it disconnects until the other battery is fully charged, it just doesn't say.
Gil, here's the answer to your questions. It's only a 20amp charger. I doubt that there is any complicated algorithm behind the charging amperage distribution. I don't see any thing it does that a single output charger wouldn't do. The battery controls the amount of amperage it gets as explained by the term "on demand".

I wouldn't have it even at the lowest quoted sales price.

If it doesn't also provide battery isolation, how could it be considered better than a good charger combined with a BIRD and solenoid/relay?
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:05 PM   #21
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Thanks Loulong. I read the more detailed manual and it nor your reference answer my questions. It appears as though the charger switches from bulk charge to float charge on all outputs at the same time.

The automatic charge relay I referenced and the existing house charger is all that is needed.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:21 PM   #22
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Thanks Loulong. I read the more detailed manual and it nor your reference answer my questions. It appears as though the charger switches from bulk charge to float charge on all outputs at the same time.

The automatic charge relay I referenced and the existing house charger is all that is needed.
I agree....
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Old 12-07-2013, 05:32 PM   #23
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Monkey Run, your house bank is charged by the inverter/charger. Yout ProMarine xharger will charge the chassis bank and what other battery? Just curious. I see that ProMarine will regulate charge current between the batteries being charged. What isn't clear is what it does to a fully charged battery when the other is still being charged. It should switch to float charge at 13.4V or so, but it can't until the other battery is charged. Maybe it disconnects until the other battery is fully charged, it just doesn't say.
Within marine, a "two bank charger" references a charger that has a set of leads for each of two batteries and so on. Three bank, three batteries. Over the years, I have used battery isolators (result is low voltage), battery combiners (great tool in appropriate application), and multi battery chargers such as the one I just purchased. Actually, the one I just purchased is the smallest one I have ever needed. In answer to your question, one lead goes to each battery, the charger senses which battery requires the greatest charge and supplies amperage proportionately until they are both equally charged. Simple and safe. I already have battery switches built into my coach, if I wanted to, I could easily add them in the battery compartment for combining the banks manually. In fact I have a couple of them on hand. Here is a link to the manual which will answer all of your questions. link : http://promariner.com/wp-content/upl...ort-SMT-Manual.
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Old 12-07-2013, 05:42 PM   #24
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Imagine,

Forgot to mention, both my house and chassis batteries are hooked in parallel configuration and are new, identical batteries. The inverter/charger handles charging the house batteries, so tell me, how do you suppose that device handles imbalanced charging on that bank? It really does not, but then again, those batteries are acting as one large battery (that is why you never use dissimilar batteries). Similarly, your chassis batteries are wired the same way. On mine, I have two new starting batteries which are charged via the engine. By adding the weather resistant two bank marine charger, I have added a balancing tool between the two chassis batteries which is NOT present under the current system. Adding a battery combiner would have the same affect sans the charging regulation between the two or four or however many batteries you have in each system.
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:37 PM   #25
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Well Monkey Run you've done something I've never heard of and something with little to no value. 2 batteries connected in parallel are one battery. The only potential benefit your charging configuration has is to overcome the resistance of the interconnecting cables between the 2 batteries. If your bank is wired correctly, you shouldn't have to worry about that either.

Typically a charger is sized for the capacity of the entire battery bank and one charger is used. There are some coaches with up to 8 8D house batteries that have 2 inverter/chargers. That is primarily to satisfy loads, but both chargers can be used at the same time. Otherwise they have one charger.

FWIW, the relay I provided the link to is bi-directional meaning it will charge either bank when the other is low and the good one has charge voltage.
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:11 PM   #26
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Well Monkey Run you've done something I've never heard of and something with little to no value. 2 batteries connected in parallel are one battery. The only potential benefit your charging configuration has is to overcome the resistance of the interconnecting cables between the 2 batteries. If your bank is wired correctly, you shouldn't have to worry about that either.

Typically a charger is sized for the capacity of the entire battery bank and one charger is used. There are some coaches with up to 8 8D house batteries that have 2 inverter/chargers. That is primarily to satisfy loads, but both chargers can be used at the same time. Otherwise they have one charger.

FWIW, the relay I provided the link to is bi-directional meaning it will charge either bank when the other is low and the good one has charge voltage.
I realize and accept your points, all true, except your statement that my choice of charging the chassis batteries has no value. The draw on the chassis batteries is no more than parasitic when sitting idle for a period of time and that is what I purchased the charger for. It seems the older coaches, at least many brands, do not have a method to charge the coach batteries when not running. I don't need a complex system, rather a simple, easy to install and replace system to keep the coach batteries topped off, so that is the path I took. I don't need extra switches and electronics to mess with, I have all of that I need or desire.
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:13 PM   #27
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One more thing, do a search of this site. You will find another similar discussion and the method I chose was suggested there, along with the Bird system. You perhaps were in on that discussion, I don't recall.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:51 PM   #28
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I realize and accept your points, all true, except your statement that my choice of charging the chassis batteries has no value. The draw on the chassis batteries is no more than parasitic when sitting idle for a period of time and that is what I purchased the charger for. It seems the older coaches, at least many brands, do not have a method to charge the coach batteries when not running. I don't need a complex system, rather a simple, easy to install and replace system to keep the coach batteries topped off, so that is the path I took. I don't need extra switches and electronics to mess with, I have all of that I need or desire.
Monkey Run,you are correct that the problem you solved was a very simple one of simply maintaining the chassis battery, however your solution is overkill from an expense point of view.
A simple battery tender from Harbor Freight ($6.99) would be just as effective IMO.
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