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Old 08-15-2013, 05:35 PM   #15
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You most likely have an open ground. This is a very dangerous situation. It can be fatal. I just had a similar problem that popped up. In checking by shore line I found it to be in pretty bad shape from years of plugging and unplugging. I "shined" to plugs with sandpaper and tried it again. It was better but still some problem. I then replaced the plug and tried it again. Problem solved. Many times the problem is in the shore line or extention if one is used. Invest in a good voltmeter . Get this problem resolved right away. Safety first.
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #16
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Good post "Steve" have added your link RV HOT SKIN in the sticky

RV System's & Appliances---- Technical Info thread.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:04 PM   #17
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the guy befor me did this


<<< look at pic LOL
<<<
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:24 PM   #18
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Some individuals don't get to excited or concerted when they receive a little shock in situations like this. What most don't realize is that it takes less than 1-amp of current properly applied to stop your heart. The lowest rated 120 volt household or MH AC breaker is 15 amps.

A WORD TO THE WISE SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT.

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Old 08-15-2013, 09:01 PM   #19
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Some individuals don't get to excited or concerted when they receive a little shock in situations like this. What most don't realize is that it takes less than 1-amp of current properly applied to stop your heart. The lowest rated 120 volt household or MH AC breaker is 15 amps.

A WORD TO THE WISE SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT.

TeJay
I'm Mike Sokol, author of No Shock Zone and the guy who wrote the Hot Skin article linked to above. For something REALLY interesting, here's a video where I created an RV hot-skin condition ON PURPOSE. Hot Skin RV proximity test full scale - YouTube
Yes, I regularly do these type of experiments to find better ways to measure dangerous electrical conditions and how to fix them.

FYI: It only takes about 20 mA (20/1000 of an amp) to cause your body to clamp down and not be able to let go of an energized wire. And 30 mA (30/1000 of an amp) for a few seconds to cause your heart to go into fibrillation. So just 30 volts AC and 30 mA of current can kill you if your hands and feet are wet.

As noted by a number of you earlier in this thread, an RV skin and chassis with ANY significant voltage above earth potential (2 volts is max) is proof that you've lost your safety ground connection. Now, by itself an open ground won't cause a hot-skin voltage, but nearly anything inside your RV plugged into its electrical system will cause SOME leakage current to the RV chassis-ground. And that will show up as a hot-skin voltage. The really dangerous thing is that sometimes those can be high-impedance leakage currents that aren't particularly dangerous. And that's when you feel a LITTLE shock. However, that same current can become low-impedance leakage in a heartbeat, and that will almost certainly kill you if you touch the RV with wet hands and feet. It's just a matter of degree, and you never know what that degree is. So ANY feeling of shock is a warning to turn off the circuit breakers and disconnect the power plug immediately.

If you DO have a proper safety ground back to the service panel, then it should be impossible to develop more than 1 or 2 volts on your RV skin. It will harmlessly drain away the small current from normal high-impedance leakage, as well as the huge currents from abnormal low-impedance leakage, such as a screw driven through a wire inside your wall.

So if you measure more than 2 volts between the earth and the chassis of your RV there's a serious problem with your safety ground. This is usually as simple as a broken or loose ground contact on your extension cord or dog-bone adapter, but can also exist in your power outlet. Old garages are especially dangerous since they can be ungrounded for years without you knowing it, and the first time you plug an RV into it there can be a deadly hot-skin condition. And certainly a worn RV pedestal outlet can have corrosion or loose contacts, and THAT can cause an RV hot-skin condition.

There's one other REALLY dangerous mis-wiring condition that I've seen at dozens of garages and stages around the country. It's something I call an RPBG (Reverse Polarity Bootleg Ground). This is when a DIY guy or old electrician tries to add a grounded outlet to a pre 1970 non-grounded electrical system by simply putting a jumper wire between the ground and neutral screws on the back of the outlet. But if the black and white wires are accidentally reversed, then the hot wire is sitting at zero volts, and the ground and neutral wires are at 120 volts.

There's no simple way to find this RPBG condition, and any 3-light outlet tester or voltmeter between H-N, H-G and G-N will report the outlet as safe, when in fact it will electrify ANYTHING you plug into it that has a ground plug. And there's no surge or voltage protector on the market will detect or disconnect your RV from a RPBG outlet. The simplest way to detect this condition is by using a Non Contact Voltage Tester as I demonstrate in the video above.

See my article on this subject on the RV Doctor's site at The RV Doctor: Friends of Gary - Mike or my EC&M Magazine article at Failures in Outlet Testing Exposed | Contractor content from Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine.

The bottom line is NEVER accept feeling ANY shock from an RV or appliance. A shock is a warning that the next time somebody touches your RV they could very well DIE from electrocution. I think it's socially irresponsible to expose your family and others to this potentially deadly situation.

Feel free to contact me for clarification of this subject.

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Old 08-15-2013, 09:08 PM   #20
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Ok point taking this is not something to leave go. Thank you to all for the fast response
First I will try to plug in a different cord and to different plugs in the house if that don't work off the the dealer to have it looked at. It was a weak shock so I didn't think much of it so with your guys help I guess I should not have taken it lightly thanks again and will keep you updated
Ok this sounds like you are doing what i do a lot of the time. I just run a regular extension cord to an outdoor outlet at my house and use house power to charge batteries and run the refrigerator while I am unloading. Before I went to the dealer I would suppect the cord or recptacle. you can buy a receptacle tester for less that 10.00 usually it just plugs into a regular receptacle and checks for open ground, open neutral, reverse polarity etc. It just plugs into the receptacle and has lights that light and tell you if everything is wired ok. You can also take the tester and plug it into the end of the extension cord if you are just using a regular 110 volt extension cord. I also keep one in my tool box. I bought it when I bought my motor home and used it to check all the receptacles in the unit itself. This would be the first step i would take. If you have to do anything in your motor home until you get this fixed take some precautions. First do not do anything you do not have to. Only use one hand touching the coach. Wear rubber gloves. As stupid as this sounds do not do anything at all bare foot. If you have to kneel on the ground do not do it in anything wet if you can help it. Put a rubber mat down to kneel on. And finally fix as soon as possible.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:14 PM   #21
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A weak shock with a person standing in moisture becomes a killing shock!
X2 a weak shock is means you are grounded weakly .

Good ground = Good shock (if there is a such a thing!!)
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:24 PM   #22
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.......
First I will try to plug in a different cord and to different plugs in the house .......
Good idea Keeping in mind the problem could be in you house wiring As well.
You could really test it with a Volt meter.(although you would need some loooong leads on it) put the ground on you ground rod at you home meter base and the hot lead on the RV chassis.
See what numbers you get. THen with the different cords and plug in locations that should/cold narrow down the problem to the Vehicle/Cord/Home circuit.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:32 PM   #23
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you can buy a receptacle tester for less that 10.00 usually it just plugs into a regular receptacle and checks for open ground, open neutral, reverse polarity etc.
Just be aware that a 3-light tester CANNOT detect an RPBG outlet condition. See my video at Reverse Polarity Bootleg Ground Testing - YouTube

That means that even if your outlet tester says the outlet is OK but you still feel a shock when touching your RV, there's a slim but real possibility that all your RV wiring is correct, but your outlet has BOTH a bootleg ground AND reverse polarity. I always suspect a newly installed outlet in an old building. That's the most common place that an RPBG can exist.

The entire electrical industry was unaware of how this worked until I began writing about it a year ago. NEVER accept feeling a shock from any appliance or RV.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:10 AM   #24
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This is when a DIY guy or old electrician tries to add a grounded outlet to a pre 1970 non-grounded electrical system by simply putting a jumper wire between the ground and neutral screws on the back of the outlet. But if the black and white wires are accidentally reversed, then the hot wire is sitting at zero volts, and the ground and neutral wires are at 120 volts.
OMG it is hard to believe someone would do this.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:37 AM   #25
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OMG it is hard to believe someone would do this.
While this is currently a violation of electrical code, bootleg grounds were common practice in the 70's and 80's. I had my Master Electricians License in 1978 and can remember an electrical inspector telling me to do exactly that on an apartment building. He said that as long as his 3-light tester showed the correct lights, then it would pass the inspection.

One of the professors I now teach with at Shenandoah University blew up his home studio when an electrician he hired to put in grounded electrical outlets did a bootleg ground instead of running a new ground wire. But the wiring was very old, and the electrician got the hot and neutral swapped. This was less than 10 years ago, and caused $6,000 worth of damage to his studio gear. See Failures in Outlet Testing Exposed | A Home Studio Horror Story for that article.

I've also seen this RPBG mis-wiring blow up live sound gear in churches. Here's another part of that same article which shows the internal wiring damage than can occur when plugging gear between correctly wired and RPBG outlets. Failures in Outlet Testing Exposed | Fault Currents This happened just last year and did about $8,000 worth of damage to a digital mixing board and powered speakers. Apparently, one of the church members wanted to help by wiring in new "grounded" outlets for the praise band. But he did the bootleg ground shortcut and also got the hot and neutral wires swapped as well. That's all it takes to create a condition that the electrical industry isn't aware of, but is as dangerous as it gets. That's because anything plugged into an RPBG outlet will appear to operate normally, but will show no outward sign of being a shock hazard. There will be no hum, buzzes, blue-glow, or sparks. That is, until you touch it and anything grounded at the same time, or interconnect the affected RV or gear with something else properly grounded. That's when the real fireworks begins.

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Old 08-16-2013, 07:43 AM   #26
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I guess what blows my mind is many years ago I owned a home without grounded outlets. For some electronic device, I forget what I needed a 3 prong surge protector. The answer was simple enough to me, run a ground wire. Doing some kind of Rube Goldberg wiring never even occurred to me and I was no expert.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:50 AM   #27
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Thanks Sound Guy , will add this thread to the Tech Info Tips sticky in the RV Systems & Appliances forum, all good advise from everyone.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:09 AM   #28
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I guess what blows my mind is many years ago I owned a home without grounded outlets. For some electronic device, I forget what I needed a 3 prong surge protector. The answer was simple enough to me, run a ground wire. Doing some kind of Rube Goldberg wiring never even occurred to me and I was no expert.
I have reader reports of bootleg grounds being done at older campgrounds and boat docks. That's REALLY scary.

Just remember that a Reverse Polarity Outlet by itself will not cause a hot-skin condition for a properly wired RV. It needs to have Reverse Polarity PLUS a Bootleg Ground for the RPBG condition to occur. And that's when standard testing methods fail to find it. I still think using a Non Contact Voltage Tester to check for hot-skin voltage and outlet polarity is the quickest and safest way to verify outlets before plugging in. You'll also want to do a voltage check, but that's a separate issue. See RV Electrical Safety: Part IV for my article on NCVT proximity testing.

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