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Old 03-16-2016, 11:19 AM   #29
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I pull a trailer with our Jeep in it along with other "essential" items. Our total weight is just over 50,000# and overall length is 75'. I had always heard stories of people being stopped in CA for over length and having to unhook. We wanted to go with a group into an off road area called Johnson Valley for a week of rock crawling with the Jeeps. After meeting some people from the east coast running 80' MH/trailer combos going to Drag Race finals in CA, I learned that all that was required was a $15 permit issued by Caltrans. It's good for 7 days and all you need is a fax machine to get it. And yes, we were instructed to follow the "Truck" rules. We were never stopped even though we saw several several LEO's. So much for the rumors.
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:27 PM   #30
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This typifies one inherent problem with rv questions.
If your rv is 25', 12,000#'s, it is an rv and not considered a truck in CA.
If you have a 40' 35,000#'s, it is considered a truck.
It's still an rv, and is considered a truck.
So the correct answer to "is an rv a truck?" Is DEPENDS.
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:39 PM   #31
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This typifies one inherent problem with rv questions.
If your rv is 25', 12,000#'s, it is an rv and not considered a truck in CA.
If you have a 40' 35,000#'s, it is considered a truck.
It's still an rv, and is considered a truck.
So the correct answer to "is an rv a truck?" Is DEPENDS.
Its not a truck, its a motorhome (aka house car). It has to follow some of the rules that relate to a truck, but not all. For example, you don't need a CDL to drive a motorhome (assuming noncommerical use) - your home state rules apply, whereas CDL rules are federal and therefore universal.

For even more fun, the CA.gov website on 45' motorhomes states:
Quote:
Motorhome: A motorhome is a noncommercial passenger vehicle defined in the California Vehicle Code (CVC) Section 465 as a "house car" and commonly referred to as a recreation vehicle. A motorhome should not to be confused with a bus (CVC 233) or a tour bus (CVC 612), also called "motorcoach," ....
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Old 03-16-2016, 03:33 PM   #32
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So then is a coach with a tag considered a truck or rv?
Next time I will just show the state policeman this thread and clear up his confusion.
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Old 03-16-2016, 03:41 PM   #33
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Just a word of caution here, if you are driving in California and the sign says 70 mph cars 55 mph trucks, and you are going 69 mph, they will pull you over in your 40' rv for speeding whether you think your rv is a truck or not.
I was only doing 67 and the ticket was just under $500. To contest it I had to came back to CA, spend a day in court to get another appearance date, then come back for it with no guarantee of reduced fine. Not worth it even though it was my first moving violation ticket in over 30 years.

BTW, in WA anything towing another item or over 10,000 GVWR is required to follow the truck rules except for the weigh station stopping.
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Old 03-16-2016, 03:44 PM   #34
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So then is a coach with a tag considered a truck or rv?
Next time I will just show the state policeman this thread and clear up his confusion.
RV is not a category. A motorhome is called a "house car" for legal purposes in the state of California. Its not a truck. Its not a bus. Its a house car, although its clear in the law that its related to a bus.

While pullling a toad, the speed is limited to 55mph because it falls under 22406: (b) A passenger vehicle or bus drawing any other vehicle.

The fact it has to specific "bus drawing any other vehicle" implies that a bus not towing anything isn't subject to 22406 and therefore not limited to 55mph on routes with higher limits. 22406 (c) specifically mentions that school buses are limited to 55mph WHEN transporting any pupil. An empty school bus isn't limited to 55mph.

Of course, most people with big motorhomes travel with a toad or trailer, making this argument irrelevant to them. I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on the internet.
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:39 PM   #35
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And you do it well!
So now does the house car with 3 axles (tag) fall under the 3 axle rule or the exempt rule?
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:55 PM   #36
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And you do it well!
So now does the house car with 3 axles (tag) fall under the 3 axle rule or the exempt rule?
You're not looking at it right. The "three axle rule" (22406.a) says:
Quote:
A motortruck or truck tractor having three or more axles
A motor truck is
Quote:
motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
According to section 362 of the CA vehicle code (definition of house car):
Quote:
362. A "house car" is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached. A motor vehicle to which a camper has been temporarily attached is not a house car except that, for the purposes of Division 11 (commencing with Section 21000) and Division 12 (commencing with Section 24000), a motor vehicle equipped with a camper having an axle that is designed to support a portion of the weight of the camper unit shall be considered a three-axle house car regardless of the method of attachment or manner of registration. A house car shall not be deemed to be a motortruck.
A house car (and buses too) is not a motortruck, and therefore not part of 22406.a.

Its not a question of "exempt" but instead "not included". Most would say a distinction without a difference, but legally they're two different things. "Exempt" applies to things were the default status is "included". 22406 applies only those vehicles that qualify. The default status is "not included."

One final detail that seals it:
Quote:
465. A "passenger vehicle" is any motor vehicle, other than a motortruck, truck tractor, or a bus, as defined in Section 233, and used or maintained for the transportation of persons. The term "passenger vehicle" shall include a housecar.
It was established in a previous post that housecar is not a bus.

EDIT: all information quoted is from the California DMV's own website, ca.gov. Its current at the moment, but might have been different in past (like when 45' motorhome weren't allowed), and will probably change in the future. It also only applies inside CA. All other states have their own rules, which is enough to drive any one that tries to be law abiding nuts.
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:41 PM   #37
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You're not looking at it right. The "three axle rule" (22406.a) says:
A motor truck is
According to section 362 of the CA vehicle code (definition of house car):
A house car (and buses too) is not a motortruck, and therefore not part of 22406.a.

Its not a question of "exempt" but instead "not included". Most would say a distinction without a difference, but legally they're two different things. "Exempt" applies to things were the default status is "included". 22406 applies only those vehicles that qualify. The default status is "not included."

One final detail that seals it:
It was established in a previous post that housecar is not a bus.

EDIT: all information quoted is from the California DMV's own website, ca.gov. Its current at the moment, but might have been different in past (like when 45' motorhome weren't allowed), and will probably change in the future. It also only applies inside CA. All other states have their own rules, which is enough to drive any one that tries to be law abiding nuts.
Thats great and, as a long time LEO, I really respect the way you laid that out. The fact is though that if you get a ticket by a cop that doesn't know all that you are still screwed. Having said that, I have found most cops to know criminal and traffic laws better than most lawyers. As a young cop, many moons ago, we used to quiz each other on things just like this just for fun. It won't surprise anyone that there are some ignorant cops though! They are the ones that scare me.
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:59 PM   #38
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So, is the bottom line of this thread to stay out of Kalifornia ?
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:12 PM   #39
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I have had discussion with a couple CHP along side the highway. Once when towing doubles and he didnt believe i was legal until his supervisor straightened him out. I make sure i know the current published regs and go. When stopped i am cordial but firm in my belief of being right.
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:17 PM   #40
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So, is the bottom line of this thread to stay out of Kalifornia ?
I will never willingly step in the State of CA. Which sucks because we would really like to go to Yosemite this Summer!! Before, just their mandatory checkpoints (Commy Russia style) to enter the State were bad enough but after reading multiple threads about these issues including LEOs that arrest other LEOs for legally carrying concealed weapons. No Yosemite for me.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:27 PM   #41
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How about Maryland. I think anything over 10,000 has to enter the weigh station there.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:05 PM   #42
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How about Maryland. I think anything over 10,000 has to enter the weigh station there.
Maryland seems to be the east coast equivalent to California for being a PITA with regards to vehicle regulations.

Yes, although they say that non-commerical vehicles will get weighed but not undergo a safety inspection.

Quote:
All vehicles with a gross vehicle weight or gross vehicle weight rating of greater than 10,000 pounds must stop at open weigh stations. Only vehicles that are operating in commerce may be subject to a safety inspection.
I've read that the signs can change in Maryland - sometimes the sign will say "all trucks", where an RV wouldn't be required to stop. There's no winning an argument when it says "all vehicles". I've heard of guys being bitched at for going through the scale and then later the same day chased down for not going through. Better to be bitched at than chased, although to be honest, the one time I was in Maryland, I passed a station in a truck that weighed 6,000 lbs while towing a 5,000 lb trailer.
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