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Old 08-04-2015, 03:18 PM   #1
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Im in love with the Dutch Star but know I need to look at other

We went and looked at a 2015 Ventana 4002 and a 2015 Dutch Star 4366 two weeks ago at Harper Camper Land in Great Bend, KS. I wanted to see how much harder a rear radiator vs side radiator was to work on since I will be doing all the maintance my self. With in minutes I hands down voted for the side radiator to be on the must have list, husband ageed too(he was liking the Ventana price tag so I thought that would be a hard sell to convince him)

We also agreed a bath and a half floor plan we both liked a lot. I thought the DS 4366 was too long and would like to see a DS 4018. The interior of the Ventana and Dutch Star both looked great to us. But we did like the roof line of the Dutch Star. The generator on the Ventana did not pull out so, we didn't like that(or the salesmen didnt know how because I thought they did). No ladder on the DS, wish it had one.

They had them sale priced at 28% off MSRP and said they will not be selling Newmar products anymore because they are going to be selling Jayco products only now. That means no Newmar dealer in KS now.

Last weekend we had to go to Oklahma City, so I wanted to spot at the Newmar dealer on the way out and see what modles they had. They had a 2016 DS 4018 with two recliners instead of the couch, euro boothe, all electric, Night Sky graphics and Cordova interior (and lots of other stuff). We both loved everything about it, and I cant stop dreaming about it at night. They said it was a great price at 12% off 400k MSRP, so like 355k. I already know that was a bad price.

But I know I need to consider others that are comparable to the DS. So my must have list so far:
Side Radiator
Bath and half floor plan about 40' with TV at a easley viewable spot
All electric as option
Generator pulls out
MSRP of less then 400k

I have found Tiffin Allegro Bus is very compairable and we will try and look at one soon. What others are? I got lots of time since we will try and buy a DP in 4 years, just want to see what we like now so we know what we want to buy used.

Oh and the biggest thing we learned so far is we need to save more money!

Thanks,
Jennifer
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:41 PM   #2
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Be aware that MSRP can at times be deceiving. For example, you can price an Entegra Anthem that will discount close to the Dutch Star even though the list is substantially higher.

If you are going to consider the Tiffin then you really should join and read through the Tiffin RV Network Forum. There is a wealth of information there about Tiffins including the not so glowing info.
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:45 PM   #3
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I don't know these coaches, but be sure to try out the floorplan with the slides IN. Some are kind of crazy and not practical when in, and that can be a problem.
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Old 08-04-2015, 04:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnytaxman View Post
Be aware that MSRP can at times be deceiving. For example, you can price an Entegra Anthem that will discount close to the Dutch Star even though the list is substantially higher.
When I first started looking for comparables the Enterga Anthem MSRP took it off our list but your saying Entegra discounts their products more then others? Oh man this is going to be harder then I thought to get comparables in the same price range. I know what people are actually paying off MSRP could very all over the place, but I dont know how else to put it on a list. Im just guessing 28% off MSRP for a number.

Ok, so I will put the Anthem back on the list to look at.

Thanks
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:31 AM   #5
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You'll find Newmar discounts to be in the mid to upper 20% range. Very rarely you may see 30% but that tends to be the major exception. Discounts in the 30-35% range can be had for the Entegras. Some dealers like Motorhome Specialist in Texas will discount Entegras 25% without you even haggling.

RVOne has both Entegras and Newmars at their Buffalo and Albany stores and Entegra only in Orlando and Newmar only in Tampa. They also have a store in Des Moines which I believe only handles Entegra, but I'm not sure on that one. We got our best deal from them on our Berkshire. They beat everyone else by thousands.

As a hint, you may find some very good deals on 2015 Newmars that are out there. The 2016's have a number of improvements that have us waiting for the '16 rather than to go with a 2015. The new models are about $15,000 higher but the additions of the stronger chassis, emergency exit door, and steerable tag are worth the added dollars to us.
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:42 AM   #6
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12% off MSRP? What a joke. Don't get caught up in the flash & sizzle as I like to call it. Flashy paint jobs & interiors don't get you down the hiway, nor do they guarantee good workmanship. Look below the surface. When we spend the winter in FL. we usually go to the super show in Tampa. Whenever I pull out a drawer I usually find plastic slides & staples, and flimsy drawer bottoms. Not to mention wood veneers, and plastic everywhere. Although we talk about getting a new coach, usually after leaving the show we say the same thing. Why? I believe our 15yr. old Dutch Star is better built, and with a real wood interior, than the newer ones. Take a deep breath, and maybe consider a quality used coach. But in the end it's your decision to make.
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:54 AM   #7
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With the time frame you are talking try to attend one of the big RV shows either in Hershey PA or Tampa FL. There you can see manufacture & models side by side. Doing so made making our choice much easier. Also consider if you are considering having special options or changes made to a coach to accommodate your liking. That will narrow your list real fast.

Best of luck and enjoy!
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-JLD9 View Post
We went and looked at a 2015 Ventana 4002 and a 2015 Dutch Star 4366 two weeks ago at Harper Camper Land in Great Bend, KS. I wanted to see how much harder a rear radiator vs side radiator was to work on since I will be doing all the maintance my self. With in minutes I hands down voted for the side radiator to be on the must have list, husband ageed too(he was liking the Ventana price tag so I thought that would be a hard sell to convince him)

We also agreed a bath and a half floor plan we both liked a lot. I thought the DS 4366 was too long and would like to see a DS 4018. The interior of the Ventana and Dutch Star both looked great to us. But we did like the roof line of the Dutch Star. The generator on the Ventana did not pull out so, we didn't like that(or the salesmen didnt know how because I thought they did). No ladder on the DS, wish it had one.

They had them sale priced at 28% off MSRP and said they will not be selling Newmar products anymore because they are going to be selling Jayco products only now. That means no Newmar dealer in KS now.

Last weekend we had to go to Oklahma City, so I wanted to spot at the Newmar dealer on the way out and see what modles they had. They had a 2016 DS 4018 with two recliners instead of the couch, euro boothe, all electric, Night Sky graphics and Cordova interior (and lots of other stuff). We both loved everything about it, and I cant stop dreaming about it at night. They said it was a great price at 12% off 400k MSRP, so like 355k. I already know that was a bad price.

But I know I need to consider others that are comparable to the DS. So my must have list so far:
Side Radiator
Bath and half floor plan about 40' with TV at a easley viewable spot
All electric as option
Generator pulls out
MSRP of less then 400k

I have found Tiffin Allegro Bus is very compairable and we will try and look at one soon. What others are? I got lots of time since we will try and buy a DP in 4 years, just want to see what we like now so we know what we want to buy used.

Oh and the biggest thing we learned so far is we need to save more money!

Thanks,
Jennifer

I wouldn't attempt to influence your choice of a manufacturer. Newmar is certainly a quality builder as is Entegra, ARG brands, and I would include some Winnebagos.

Since you are planning full timing I encourage you to consider tag axle coaches.

You have put the bath & 1/2 on your must have. I think you should give that more thought. The 1 & 1/2 bath floorplans have lots of curb appeal but they use lots of space. You will quickly learn that the maximizing of space is of major importance when you just have 40-42'.


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Old 08-05-2015, 08:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramets View Post
12% off MSRP? What a joke. Don't get caught up in the flash & sizzle as I like to call it. Flashy paint jobs & interiors don't get you down the hiway, nor do they guarantee good workmanship. Look below the surface. When we spend the winter in FL. we usually go to the super show in Tampa. Whenever I pull out a drawer I usually find plastic slides & staples, and flimsy drawer bottoms. Not to mention wood veneers, and plastic everywhere. Although we talk about getting a new coach, usually after leaving the show we say the same thing. Why? I believe our 15yr. old Dutch Star is better built, and with a real wood interior, than the newer ones. Take a deep breath, and maybe consider a quality used coach. But in the end it's your decision to make.
We are 90% sure we are buying used, but some times talk about new just incase we win the lottery. We are looking at new ones now to see what we want in 4 years used. Though I think we could buy a new one if we wanted, it would take everything we have and the proceeds from selling every thing(since we do not want payments) and then we wouldnt have any money to do the things we want.

When that sales person said 12% off, I almost busted out laughing. He emailed me yesterday and now is offering 22% off. If we do for some reason buy brand new, I would order a Dutch Star it just how I want it and do the factory delivery with Newmar.

I tell Gary every moring when I leave for work that Im just on bad day away from quiting and finding the best used DP we can for what money we already have, and rolling! We do plan on going to the Tampa show this January to look at stuff, then hop on a cruise ship and enjoy life for a week.
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:56 AM   #10
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I wouldn't attempt to influence your choice of a manufacturer. Newmar is certainly a quality builder as is Entegra, ARG brands, and I would include some Winnebagos.

Since you are planning full timing I encourage you to consider tag axle coaches.

You have put the bath & 1/2 on your must have. I think you should give that more thought. The 1 & 1/2 bath floorplans have lots of curb appeal but they use lots of space. You will quickly learn that the maximizing of space is of major importance when you just have 40-42'.


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Full time since '07
The thing we like most about the bath & 1/2 is the big bathroom is in the rear of the coach. Like its a ensuite and you do not have to walk through a bathroom to get to the front of the coach. But I see how it can be wasted space, because we really only need on bathroom for just us.

Almost every thing we have looked at that we like has a tag, and Gary liked the 2016 Dutch Star with the passive steering on the tag axle. I thought 36 feet would be plenty big but Gary likes 40 feet.

I have not even thought of Winnebagos, what model is like a Dutch Star? When I first looked online about American Coach and Monaco, the price tag scared me. But I need to do more research on them because buying used would put them in the budget.
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Old 08-05-2015, 09:20 AM   #11
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Well, take your time & enjoy the adventure ...
Don't get stuck on one make/model too early .... look at everything out there ...
Early in our search, we got stuck at looking at only a couple of models for final purchase an at the 11th hour someone turned us on to something we had even considered ... which became the final winner ...
Looking at everything new right now for purchase used later is a really good idea IMO. If you look at 3 & 4 year old coaches right now you'll see some real money savings .........
As for percentages of saving off MSRP ... its all about negotiations .. having a target number is good ... but its all about playing let's make a deal ... a friend of mine just purchased a new DS a couple of months ago and got it for a lot less then being discussed up in here so far ..... #justsayin

Good luck .... & have fun. We very much enjoyed our search
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Old 08-05-2015, 09:29 AM   #12
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The thing we like most about the bath & 1/2 is the big bathroom is in the rear of the coach. Like its a ensuite and you do not have to walk through a bathroom to get to the front of the coach. But I see how it can be wasted space, because we really only need on bathroom for just us.

Almost every thing we have looked at that we like has a tag, and Gary liked the 2016 Dutch Star with the passive steering on the tag axle. I thought 36 feet would be plenty big but Gary likes 40 feet.

I have not even thought of Winnebagos, what model is like a Dutch Star? When I first looked online about American Coach and Monaco, the price tag scared me. But I need to do more research on them because buying used would put them in the budget.

The top Winnie's are the Grand Tour and the Itasca Ellipse Ultra. Downside is that Winnebago is in love with rear radiators.

If you full time, the 40-42' size is the sweet spot, in my opinion. By sure to look through literature carefully. Some coaches that appear well suited to full time state that the coach is not for full time use or similar wording.


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Old 08-05-2015, 09:30 AM   #13
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Buying new or buying used is an age old discussion. Buying used will save you money....unless something goes wrong. Check out the threads on here of the couple who bought a used rig and got 500 miles from the dealer when the engine blew or the couple who bought a used rig and now find out they can't get a title for it.

Used can sometimes be the most expensive route you can go. We bought used only once and had the "pleasure" of finding out we had no brakes on a hot sunny Saturday afternoon on I-75 along the Georgia/Florida border. Needless to say, we have never bought used again.
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Old 08-05-2015, 09:38 AM   #14
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Some great discussion points, I would add look at the weight carrying capacity you will have before you hit gross. Different models within a given mfg will vary greatly and to me is as important as floor plan, especially if you will be full timing.
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