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Old 03-23-2014, 10:04 AM   #1
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Question Industry Price Structure

I am looking for information to help understand the price sturcture in the class A motorhome market place.

To provide some background, we are shopping for our first unit. We have rented, researched, and shopped extensively. At this point, we have determined that we want either a new (2014/2015) Fleetwood Discovery 40X, or a Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH.

We have heard some rules of thumb on the forums such as expect to buy somewhere between 25-30%. But in talking to the retailers, we are getting very different stories. Some go to 25% right away (on the internet), but when you talk to them, they won't budge or call you back when you push for anything else. One dealer said that the industry standard is that they own them for 40% of MSRP, but will sell or order for 10% above invoice. 10% above invoice is a pretty big profit for a coach that invoices (if you believe what they show you) for $200k. BTW I've had one dealer show me an invoice sheet for the unit (had the correct VIN), but it was highly questionable since it didnt even show all the correct installed options in the unit!

In the absence of good NADA/Edmunds information, and questionable stories from the dealers, I need help. Is there anyone out there with recent information on their deals, or good price structure knowledge (especially for the Fleetwood, or Tiffin lines)? Also, any insights on how hold backs, rebates, or incentives work would be helpful in educating me.

Thanks!
Black Cabby
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:32 AM   #2
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25 to 28 percent off an ordered unit. Or rethink your plan and buy a used coach from a high end builder and end up with much more coach.
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:08 AM   #3
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We've just not seen what we're looking for in the used market. Also, the price for used (2-3 years old) isn't significant enough when compared to discounted new. I think my main issue is the dealer profit being too high.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:45 AM   #4
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Dealer cost is ~70% of MSRP. There is also the "holdback", which the dealer receives from the factory, after a new coach is sold. The dealer also receives a discount if they purchase more than one RV at a time from the factory.

MSRP can be inflated by the dealer. Contact the manufacturer directly for their MSRP price listing, including option pricing.

1. Obtain the MSRP price sheet from the factory.

2. Select your options and add the coach base MSRP.

3. ~70% of that total is the approximate dealer cost.

4. Add what you consider a FAIR PROFIT for the dealer.

5. That total should be you pricing objective.

If you are trading, take the total from the above calculations, subtract the WHOLESALE value of your trade. You trades WHOLESALE value can be found in the dealer's NADA book. Ask him to see his or check your library. Note: a dealer NEVER has more than the WHOLESALE value in any RV. You can save by selling your RV yourself, but you'll have to pay state sales tax on the FULL purchase price of your new RV.

Good luck!

-Tom
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:26 AM   #5
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I think Tom N is pretty close, though I think wholesale is closer to 65% than 70%.

As for a fair "profit", the selling dealer has a lot of expenses you will probably under-estimate, e.g. sales commission, coach prep, delivery walk-through and training, his own floor plan (finance) costs, sales lot overhead, etc. High volume dealers can do all that and still be ok at 25+% off MSRP, but smaller dealers seldom go below 15-20%.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer View Post
I think Tom N is pretty close, though I think wholesale is closer to 65% than 70%.
My post was aimed at Winnebago motorhome pricing. My 70% is very close to Winnebago dealer cost. Note: delivery charges will be charged over and above this 70% figure. And it will be added to your pricing. Winnebago charges the same delivery charge no matter where the coach is delivered. My delivery charge in 2005 was $625. I'll guess it's close to $1000 today.

If you order a motorhome, the dealer would have no financing dollars invested. If buying from the dealers stock, the dealer would have financing dollars invested in his inventory.

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Old 03-24-2014, 10:20 AM   #7
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Here is the retail price sheet provided to 2014 Phaeton customers at dealers (if you ask). Hope this helps with your calculations.

http://www.rvcruzer.com/pricing/2014_PhaetonPricing.pdf
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:35 PM   #8
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Thanks to all for the input. Is there anyone out there with recent Fleetwood buying details? If not recent, has anyone done better than the 70% mark on new purchases?
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Blackcabby View Post
Also, the price for used (2-3 years old) isn't significant enough when compared to discounted new.
This doesn't make sense, brand new the Tiffin lists for 300K, if you get a great deal you might get it for 210K. The last three 2011/2012 units sold on the west coast by dealers went between 140-160K. If you have cash the last auction units sold for 130K-125K and a estate sale unit in Oregon just went for 109K. That seems like a pretty good discount to me.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:01 AM   #10
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I would think GaryRVRoamer is close to the mark at 65%. I am sure I have read posts by some buyers who say they bouught at 68% MSRP. This has been on coaches with MSRP above 400k which would still leave what most would consider a reasonable margin to the dealer.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
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This doesn't make sense, brand new the Tiffin lists for 300K, if you get a great deal you might get it for 210K. The last three 2011/2012 units sold on the west coast by dealers went between 140-160K. If you have cash the last auction units sold for 130K-125K and a estate sale unit in Oregon just went for 109K. That seems like a pretty good discount to me.
+1 The op needs to look closer at the used market. He is clearly missing something.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom N View Post
Dealer cost is ~70% of MSRP. There is also the "holdback", which the dealer receives from the factory, after a new coach is sold. The dealer also receives a discount if they purchase more than one RV at a time from the factory.

MSRP can be inflated by the dealer. Contact the manufacturer directly for their MSRP price listing, including option pricing.

1. Obtain the MSRP price sheet from the factory.

2. Select your options and add the coach base MSRP.

3. ~70% of that total is the approximate dealer cost.

4. Add what you consider a FAIR PROFIT for the dealer.

5. That total should be you pricing objective.

If you are trading, take the total from the above calculations, subtract the WHOLESALE value of your trade. You trades WHOLESALE value can be found in the dealer's NADA book. Ask him to see his or check your library. Note: a dealer NEVER has more than the WHOLESALE value in any RV. You can save by selling your RV yourself, but you'll have to pay state sales tax on the FULL purchase price of your new RV.

Good luck!

-Tom
In Virginia you get to pay tax on the full sale price anyway.....
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:40 PM   #13
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I was where you are now and had the same questions. I also looked at the models you've narrowed your search down to prior to going with gas over diesel. We also wanted to buy new, like you. We also had a trade (not sure if you do).

I went down the industry pricing investigation route as well, trying to run numbers against dealer cost, incentives, etc.. What I found out in the long run was no matter where I looked, I had nothing solid or truly objective to verify my numbers against (frustrating!). Also, there were a number of different caveats depending on multiple factors (dealer size, how financially healthy of a business they have, specific provisions in contracts between manufacturer and dealer, etc.). Sounds like you're looking for all this, as well. I'm not sure you're going to find this either, but I do think you can get close. The two above posts with all the figures definitely give you a range to shoot for.

So now what?

Honestly, the stress comes at this point from over-thinking all this, and boy have I been there, with spreadsheets, etc! You should only still be worried about getting a solid deal if you didn't really do your homework, which is not the case in your particular situation.

Here's the conclusion I came to: At the end of the day, that "as close to 30% off MSRP as possible" is really pretty close to what you want to hit, no matter what formulas you actually run - they all come pretty close to that same range, give or take. Enough internet searches give you the general MSRP range for both of those units (give or take). Forums around the net have a lot of folks falling into the 20% - 30%-ish range for new rig purchase prices, again give or take. And, yes, you can still get a great deal like this with a trade going through a dealership, and buying new.

Ask directly about any incentives from the manufacturer, themselves. More than once. Ask if there are any current OR near-future rebates or additional incentives on tap. A few years ago Fleetwood did have one. I wasn't aware of it, and happened to find out about it when I was calling them directly about the availability of a particular option I was looking for at that time. (I haven't seen Tiffin having any, but I could be wrong there.).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you might just need to pull the trigger on whichever model you pick. Sounds very much like you're as ready and prepped as humanly possible!

Looking forward to seeing the 'new rig' pictures on whatever you end up choosing! Best of luck and try not to stress too much more over your decision!
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