Input on AGM batteries

[Caflashbob]

Originally Posted by Caflashbob

Double the cycle life in AGM's versus flooded cells.

Flooded cells are freezeable. AGM's resist vibration better.

No outgassing means less maintenance of the terminals and cables. Twice a year minumum with flooded cells.

Dangerous gases from flooded cells. Battery water regularly.

I use the even more expensive DEKA 8g8'ds.

Double the cycle life of the AGM's.

Unknown cycles of 50% discharge in flooded cell.

500 cycles of 50% discharge in AGM's

1000 cycles of 50% discharge with gels.

10% discharge on gels the life is 5,000 cycles.

My feb 97 Foretravels heart freedom 25 inverter has a three step charger and the proper settings for all three types of batteries.

No equalizing. No outgassing, low maintenance, no freezing, power down to -40 roughly.

Save money elsewhere in the world. Unless you want to live hooked up to a power pedestal the gels pay for themselves in longer life, less maintenance.

I was in the expensive Rv biz for many years long ago. First thing I did when I purchased our 15 year old coach three years ago was to go back to the original equipement batteries Foretravel put in the coach.

Three optima redtops for the engine start and three deka 8g8d's. Then added desulfators to both battery banks and an automatic charger from the house batteries to the engine batteries and a small 7amp 130 watt solar panel tied to the refer which is always tied to the house batteries in a Foretravel so if the cole Hersey house battery switch is turned off the refer still works.

Never hardly look in the battery compartment since. Three years. Mostly dry camp. No hot use although.

Runs the Aqua hot and dometic side by side refer and non led lighting for two days with no gen run time at all.

Cheaper than most campground fees in the long run.

I started as a sales manager for Foretravel in 1984 and rv'ed constantly in traded in coaches for 15 years.

No lead acid. No cars come with lead acid.

The cycle life charts are on the deka battery websites.

Three dollars an hour in diesel fuel and gen maintenace I skip and the noise.

old discussion on the foreforums web site.

Yes it's more money. Last thing I got for free was worth exactly what I paid for it.

I would pay more for any used Rv with top of the line batteries in it.

Means the owner took care of it better probably.

Higher amp start batteries load the starter less and less heating of the cabling.

AGM's and gels have much higher power at lower temperatures.

My old coach was probably less expensive than most posters here coaches but only the best batteries to avoid problems and have better power in the coach.

Yes I know they are twice as much money. Many times that better in quality IMO.

Had to correct some info above

[Rambling Man]

Originally Posted by Caflashbob

No lead acid. No cars come with lead acid.

Let's not cause more confusion than necessary. AGMs, VRLA, Gel Cells, and the older technology Wet Cells are all lead acid batteries. They all suffer equally from high temps. Where they differ is in how the acid surrounds the lead plates.

Wiley

[PDXDisco]

Originally Posted by Caflashbob

Had to correct some info above

Anyone who has read the thread, as I have, understands the "advantages" of AGM batteries. Many of these advantages may not matter to some, such as the resistance to freezing, lack of off-gassing, etc.

Bob, you mentioned that "you get what you pay for", yet you acknowledge that you once were in the "expensive RV" business, yet own a 15 year old coach. Why is that? I suspect you have a budget. So do I, and so do many retired folks who own RVs; they are often on fixed incomes. Expenditures do matter, and if as you state "save the money somewhere else" applies, then the question becomes, why?

If your RV lifestyle involves boon-docking, getting away from everyone, either because you can't afford RV parks, because you prefer to be in "nature" (in your RV), or because you don't get along with other people, then buying the best inverter/charger, batteries etc. makes a lot of sense. If you don't use your batteries and inverter as much, which is the case with anyone who mainly plugs in at state parks or RV parks, then spending a lot of money on these items makes less sense.

As has been noted, my Heart/Interface charger/inverter has a setting for AGM batteries. It also has a temperature sensor. Neither of these work correctly. Whether they did at one time or not, I can't say. Realize that this unit is twelve years old. The technology for both batteries and chargers has changed since then. Again, I don't trust this unit with AGMs, and I'm not going to spend the money right now to replace it. I'm concerned, with good reason, that it would destroy a new set of AGMs, so I am going back to lead acid, which I know works well on the charger I have. I don't think I'm alone in being in this position.

As for off-gassing "dangerous gas" (hydrogen), the amount of gas is really minimal, and hydrogen rises, unlike the "dangerous gas" propane, which we all use without much thought, so just make sure it can vent out, and you'll be fine. I don't plan on taking my coach up to the North Pole to help Santa this year, so freezing isn't my concern. A little spray of terminal cleaner and corrosion preventative is all I ever had to do with my original Trojan batteries, so no big deal there. The battery watering systems, which I used before on my original Trojans, work just fine, making a chore an easy squeeze or two. And as I stated before, whether you have AGM or lead acid batteries, checking them regularly is a good thing. If all of this seems like too much to deal with, then I would suggest a hotel room. Either that, or prepare to keep throwing hundred dollar bills at the RV dealership, repair shop, etc. And be prepared to have a lot of break-downs on your trips, sometimes in places where getting service is difficult.

If you have plenty of money, and you can afford to buy the "best", then by all means get AGMs. If you have an older charger/inverter, replace it with a new system, like the Magnum true sine-wave. Add the remote, and the charging state controller, as well. Heck, get a second remote so you can monitor the charge from inside and outside, too. I would, if I had the money to do it. Better yet, separate the charging and inverter functions, which is the way people with knowledge and money do things in the boating world. I know, because I have a "water RV" (it's for sale, inquire here). If you can't or won't maintain your batteries, then the choice is simple: pay the money to use AGM batteries, or count on replacing your lead acid batteries frequently. And, to be redundant, this is my opinion, obviously, since giving our opinions is what we do here on this forum.

[Rambling Man]

PDXDisco, you stated," so I am going back to lead acid, ".

If you would change your statement to, " so I am going back to wet cell,", I would agree with your statement.

Once again, all of the battery types being discussed, AGM, gel cell, and wet cell, are lead acid batteries and lead acid technology. I think we all know what you mean, but it would possibly help some of the readers of this thread to be specific in our terminology.

Wiley

[az bound]

An even better idea would be to stay on the AGM thread topic and start a new one for other types.

[twinboat]

You are making long lasting battery claims, but have only had them for 3 years. You are then, NOT talking from experince, but using data supplied by the people selling the stuff.

More times then not, real world use, can not meet the specs, used in testing the product.
I have used 6 Volt wet cells for 5 years, with 1290 cycles. Most cycles were between 60% and 80 % . I am now replacing them because they have lost 1/2 of thete capacity.

[hes4all]

Originally Posted by az bound

An even better idea would be to stay on the AGM thread topic and start a new one for other types.

[PDXDisco]

Originally Posted by az bound

An even better idea would be to stay on the AGM thread topic and start a new one for other types.

The thread is "input on AGM batteries", not "why I love my AGM batteries, and ways I can extol their virtues". If discussion of why they might not be the best choice for some people, in some situations, is off limits, then what's the point of discussing AGM batteries? Why not just delete the whole topic?

[PDXDisco]

Originally Posted by Rambling Man

PDXDisco, you stated," so I am going back to lead acid, ".

If you would change your statement to, " so I am going back to wet cell,", I would agree with your statement.

Once again, all of the battery types being discussed, AGM, gel cell, and wet cell, are lead acid batteries and lead acid technology. I think we all know what you mean, but it would possibly help some of the readers of this thread to be specific in our terminology.

Wiley

Good point, and done. I can't edit my post, so my agreement will have to suffice.

[Rambling Man]

Originally Posted by PDXDisco

The thread is "input on AGM batteries", not "why I love my AGM batteries, and ways I can extol their virtues". If discussion of why they might not be the best choice for some people, in some situations, is off limits, then what's the point of discussing AGM batteries? Why not just delete the whole topic?

[Rambling Man]

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

Sometime around 1960 they went to 12 volt, but at this time the six volt was the single most popular automotive battery.. AND the foot print was what is now a GC-2. So when they started making electric golf cars,, They used the battery that was easily found, Said six volt.

Today the six volt GC-2 is still the single most popular lead acid battery, However the reason has changed,, Instead of being used in cars, tractors, and most everything with an electric starter, and thus being chosen for Golf Cars.

There is also a more technical reason for the six volt battery popularity to store energy. Think about the individual cell size in a six volt battery and a 12 volt battery of the same physical size. The six volt battery has three 2 volt cells. The 12 volt battery has six 2 volt cells in the same physical space. The way they get six 2 volt cells into the same space is by making the positive and negative grid plates smaller. The six volt batteries plates are as much as 60% thicker. The significance of this is that the six volt batteries should have a longer lifespan than the 12 volt batteries because the major cause of deep cycle battery failure is the shedding of active material from the battery plates.

The overall space requirements are just about equal. Two 12 volt batteries in parallel, rated at about 100 amp hours each, would equal 200 amp hours of 12 volt storage. Two six volt batteries in series, rated at about 200 amps each, would equal 200 amp hours of 12 volt storage.

I generalized the amp hour ratings on purpose. There are many different manufacturers with batteries to match just about any need. It is the construction of the battery I am discussing not individual specifics.

I chose six volt batteries in series for my RV house energy reserve.

Wiley

[hes4all]

Originally Posted by mque

Looking at replacing my 5 year old interstate 6v flooded house batteries with AGM's. does anyone have any experience with this or battery recommendations? Thank you

mque

This is the OP's questions!

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Have new AGM in our coach. Last ones lasted 9 years. When I removed old ones they and the compartment looked brand new. All terminals looked new. Carpet on compartment floor looked new too. AGM the only way to go.

Same with our Interstate flooded wet cell batteries and compartment. They also lasted 10 years, 8 of which were after I put 4 oz of mineral oil in each cell.
To me AGM's only make sense in very specific conditions, none of which we have. My new Interstate GC-2's cost me about $150 each and I plan to get 10 years out of them.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by PDXDisco

Anyone who has read the thread, as I have, understands the "advantages" of AGM batteries. Many of these advantages may not matter to some, such as the resistance to freezing, lack of off-gassing, etc.

Bob, you mentioned that "you get what you pay for", yet you acknowledge that you once were in the "expensive RV" business, yet own a 15 year old coach. Why is that? I suspect you have a budget. So do I, and so do many retired folks who own RVs; they are often on fixed incomes. Expenditures do matter, and if as you state "save the money somewhere else" applies, then the question becomes, why?

If your RV lifestyle involves boon-docking, getting away from everyone, either because you can't afford RV parks, because you prefer to be in "nature" (in your RV), or because you don't get along with other people, then buying the best inverter/charger, batteries etc. makes a lot of sense. If you don't use your batteries and inverter as much, which is the case with anyone who mainly plugs in at state parks or RV parks, then spending a lot of money on these items makes less sense.

As has been noted, my Heart/Interface charger/inverter has a setting for AGM batteries. It also has a temperature sensor. Neither of these work correctly. Whether they did at one time or not, I can't say. Realize that this unit is twelve years old. The technology for both batteries and chargers has changed since then. Again, I don't trust this unit with AGMs, and I'm not going to spend the money right now to replace it. I'm concerned, with good reason, that it would destroy a new set of AGMs, so I am going back to lead acid, which I know works well on the charger I have. I don't think I'm alone in being in this position.

As for off-gassing "dangerous gas" (hydrogen), the amount of gas is really minimal, and hydrogen rises, unlike the "dangerous gas" propane, which we all use without much thought, so just make sure it can vent out, and you'll be fine. I don't plan on taking my coach up to the North Pole to help Santa this year, so freezing isn't my concern. A little spray of terminal cleaner and corrosion preventative is all I ever had to do with my original Trojan batteries, so no big deal there. The battery watering systems, which I used before on my original Trojans, work just fine, making a chore an easy squeeze or two. And as I stated before, whether you have AGM or lead acid batteries, checking them regularly is a good thing. If all of this seems like too much to deal with, then I would suggest a hotel room. Either that, or prepare to keep throwing hundred dollar bills at the RV dealership, repair shop, etc. And be prepared to have a lot of break-downs on your trips, sometimes in places where getting service is difficult.

If you have plenty of money, and you can afford to buy the "best", then by all means get AGMs. If you have an older charger/inverter, replace it with a new system, like the Magnum true sine-wave. Add the remote, and the charging state controller, as well. Heck, get a second remote so you can monitor the charge from inside and outside, too. I would, if I had the money to do it. Better yet, separate the charging and inverter functions, which is the way people with knowledge and money do things in the boating world. I know, because I have a "water RV" (it's for sale, inquire here). If you can't or won't maintain your batteries, then the choice is simple: pay the money to use AGM batteries, or count on replacing your lead acid batteries frequently. And, to be redundant, this is my opinion, obviously, since giving our opinions is what we do here on this forum.

This is a well stated argument. Sometime 'the buck stops here' means there just anti any more ye'all. We are forced to compromise to be successful. This coach came with AGM's and a Magnum. It was a drawing card for me. At the moment all is working well as set up from the factory. I have no real time data as to how long my house batteries will last before the generator kicks in to recharge. If I don't use the coffer maker or microwave, 12 hrs+? I don't know.

On a side note, I have just now contacted Trojan Batteries. i have asked the technical department what the adverse effects of adding mineral oil to their flooded cell batteries is. I'll post the answer when I get it.

Rick Y