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Old 06-13-2013, 09:33 AM   #15
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Quick update: after leaving Cummins, I made a short trip to test everything out.

Results:
1. The temp stayed between 187 - 195
2. Noticeable loss in power

I am going up to Nashville this weekend and will see how it performs.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:56 AM   #16
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Temps sound good, but the loss of power is concerning. I have heard of Cummins updates causing a loss of fuel efficiency, but not power. Keep us informed.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:54 PM   #17
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Just to put my two cents in. I have a 2008 Monaco with a 2007 isc. Engine temp runs between 179 and 190. I have never seen it hit 200. Have driven all over the country. I believe my fan runs continually. No def either.

Steve
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:10 PM   #18
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Quick Update: I talked to the Service Manager at Cummins yesterday and I explained the temp was under control but there was a noticeable loss in power. He said that before the injector codes were put in, they were dumping fuel freely which led to the increased power but high temps. I will say that I have seen between 9.4 and 10.5 MPG going from San Antonio to Dallas, Hot Springs, Memphis, Red Bay, and now Birmingham. I think this is probably better than most. I am 35,740 pounds, pulling a 4,800 pound Jeep.

We leave out for Nashville in the morning (about 220 miles), so I should have some new information to share...temp, MPG, power, trans, etc.

On another note, I asked the Service Manager how I can be made aware of any service updates (they call them campaigns) and he said I can't. The normal case is...you start having a problem, take it to Cummins, and they look for a campaign that relates to your problem and apply it, along with any other campaigns that have yet to be applied. My engine was made in March 2010 and had 10 campaigns open for it.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:35 PM   #19
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Mine was made about the same time. Since everything else appears good, I will take it to Cummins South in Orlando to have the next service done this next winter. Your mileage is awesome, I weigh just over 35,000 and get about 7.5-8.0. Wouldn't mind a little better.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:56 PM   #20
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I have a isc built in 2007. It has never had a software update or campaign. If the engine was in a fire truck then there was an update.mmi wonder why mine has so few and your newer engine has 10?

Steve
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:04 AM   #21
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Angry

Update: the overheating problems have continued and the chassis problems has gotten worse too! Here is the latest:

I drove from Birmingham to Nashville and observed the following (yes, things could get even worse):
1. Every time I came to a hill,
a. the temp would shoot up to 225 – 228,
b. the alarm would go off,
c. I would go from 62 mph down to around 50 mph,
d. downshift, and
e. hope the temp would come down…I did this for over 2 hours!
2. I noticed the fan would come on at different temps…sometimes 207 and sometimes not until 220-something (I asked Mid-South about this and he told me they just make the updates that Spartan gives them…they are not responsible for what they are and what happens as a result of them)
3. Flat driving was mostly 212 degrees then back up as soon as I started on an incline (mind you, these are not Colorado sized mountains…just piss-ant hills)
4. Fuel mileage went from 9.4 mpg to 6.2 mpg…ANOTHER BONUS!

I called Jeremy at Mid-South and he had a line of excuses as to my problem (I was probably over loaded, rear fan, DEF, etc. He never offered to diagnose/fix the problem. Final words were “everything from a Cummins standpoint is fine…must be a Spartan problem…talk to them!

I called Charlie Fisher at Spartan to share my experience at one of their so-called Spartan Service Centers (it’s on their web site so it must be true!). He told me that I should have called him and that he would have made Cummins do the Spartan stuff...lesson learned!

While I was in Nashville, Charlie set up an appointment for me at Crosspoint Cummins. They are not listed as a Spartan SC but Charlie assures me they will work on it. I arrived on June 21st for the service appointment. Spartan’s advice to Cummins was to change out the radiator cap. The basis for the recommendation was: the Cummins mechanic noticed there was damage on the back grill and paint on the coach from leaking radiator fluid. He did a pressure test on the 15# radiator cap and it opened up all the way down to 6#. He told me that for every 1# of pressure short of 15#, relates to 15 degrees in increased engine temperature. They replaced the radiator cap and sent me on my way.

I went to St. Louis on 6/29 and the problems persisted. The temps were back up to 220 – 230 but no alarms went off. I called Charlie at Spartan and he said as long as the alarm is not going off, there is no problem. He also said it is normal for the constant cycling of: rising engine temp, fan comes on, temp goes down, fan goes off, temp goes back up, etc….I have to throw my bullshit flag on this one! That means the only thing keeping the engine cool is the fan. Might as well throw the radiator and thermostat away. As the Cummins mechanic in Nashville pointed out, I now have radiator fluid on the back of our coach and front of our tow vehicle. If I understand where the fingers are pointed this time, it looks like Spartan owns the bad radiator cap…and the damage.

I was hoping the radiator cap would fix the problem. I also thought setting the ECM codes would fix the problem…but they didn’t. I am at a loss for what to do or try next. We have owned the coach for 9 months and have yet to be able to use it to travel…without fear of breakdown! We have spent the entire 8 months in this coach chasing the next Tiffin/Spartan/Cummins Service Center in order to get repairs. Our only trip has been to Red Bay, AL to sit in Tiffin's lot for 3 weeks. I would like to think that owning a Tiffin MH means more than traveling from one repair shop to another. Not that anyone is counting but 4 Spartan Centers (SW Wheel & Alignment in SA, Aguirre P&B in Buda, Bay Diesel in Red Bay) have tried to fix the alignment of the coach without any success. Spartan is now telling us to drive another 100 miles west to Columbia, MO in order to have some “coach whisperer” fix it. This is not only time consuming, it is also getting VERY expensive! The engine has been looked at/worked on by Ancira RV, Tiffin, Bay Diesel, Cummins – Birmingham, and Cummins – Nashville. Some findings, some fixes but still no resolution!

I arrived at Perry/Legend in Columbia, MO and the owner Bill took the coach for a test drive this morning. He noticed:
1. A considerable pull to the right
2. Tire temperatures on the right side of the coach are consistently 5 – 10 degrees hotter than the left
3. On a 20 minute test drive, the temperatures were in the high 220’s, requiring the fan to stay on almost all the time
4. Bill crawled under the back of the coach and noticed there is coolant coming out (I do not know if it is a leak or coming from somewhere else but I did not notice any fluid coming from the cap).

Bill called the Cummins Service Center in Columbia and informed the owner of the problem. He agreed to look at it next week. Meanwhile, I am now stuck in another city I had no intention of going to, paying for fuel, lodging, and without use of our coach. I have no idea when they will actually diagnose and make another attempt at fixing the problems.

I have to say, of all the people who have attempted to repair the problems, Bill is the first one to take the time to drive the coach beforehand…and will probably be the only one to test drive it after repairs are made. He has suggested that my front tires may be bad. Does that mean that I now get to deal with Michelin on this issue?

Sorry for the long posting but hopefully, someone will benefit from my agony! Next week is do or die time for me and this Tiffin product. I will keep you posted. I am thinking that by now, I qualify under the Lemon Law!
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:01 AM   #22
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Foretom2, this may sound pretty obvious, but has anyone checked your radiator for any crud build up. If the slobber tube isn't long enough it'll be spraying an oily substance onto the radiator, which in turn will make it sticky so that any dirt will stick to the rad fins. Is it a side rad. or rear? Just a thought, and a simple fix. Keep us up to date on anything you find.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:11 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramets View Post
Foretom2, this may sound pretty obvious, but has anyone checked your radiator for any crud build up. If the slobber tube isn't long enough it'll be spraying an oily substance onto the radiator, which in turn will make it sticky so that any dirt will stick to the rad fins. Is it a side rad. or rear? Just a thought, and a simple fix. Keep us up to date on anything you find.
There is no slobber tube on the newer EPA 07 and up.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:58 AM   #24
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Didn't know that.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:05 PM   #25
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Update from Cummins in Columbia, MO:
The mechanic and I burned about 50 gal of fuel running up/down the highway with his comouter hooked up to the coach conducting tests. He determined that everything with the cooling system was OK and the problem must be within the engine. Like he said, would rather try the easy stuff first before we take the head off of the engine.

After removing the head, he micéd the sleeves and noticed the top of the sleeve on the back 3 cylinders are not up to spec. It should be within .001" and .004" above the block and the back 3 cylinders are from .000" to -.005". They tell me this is a bad thing and has probably been this way since it was built. Cummins standard solution is to pull the 3 sleeves out of the cylinder and put a new sleeve in and re-measure it. If it does not meet spec’s then that means the seat for the sleeve of the cylinder was cut wrong and they will need to remove the sleeve again, cut/bore out the sleeve seat and shim it up.

While they know this is an obvious defect, there is still no assurance this will rectify the overheating problem BUT this is certainly a pretty good indicator.

After talking with the Branch and Service Managers at Cummins (Columbia, MO) about the possibility of further problems with a “rebuilt” engine, I asked Cummins to replace this engine for a new one. They have agreed. Cummins goes not have an ISC380 available to them even though I am in an "engine down" situation. Time to build one, have it delivered, installed, and tested is estimated at 3-4 weeks.

Did I tell you that I only have 4,000 miles on the coach and that I have now been to 4 Cummins shops to have this problem fixed? I also have had my chassis worked on for the 4th time here in Columbia...patience is not one of my strengths!

I will send an update after the engine swap has been completed.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:10 PM   #26
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Thanks for the updates. I am sorry for all of your issues, and know how I would feel right about now.

I now have 13,000 miles on my 42 QBH and it has been rock solid other than the temps hovering between 202 and 210 which I now believe is normal for my coach. Above 80 degrees in flat or the Rockies the temps remain the same. I have a friend with a 2008 Newmar Ventana with a 330 ISC and his runs the exact same temps, and has over 100,000 miles on it with no issues.

I wish you the best of luck with the engine swap, and hope that this will be the end of your issues. It is really a great coach, and floor plan and I am sure you will enjoy it when this is all behind you.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:28 AM   #27
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Update: Cummins had to build a new engine and they replaced it. They did have a problem finding the correct program that would make everything run correctly. They had to back down to the April 2013 version to get an injector warning to stop. They also modified the fan to come on at 205 degrees and it will drive the temp back down to 192 before it goes off.

I just drove it back to San Antonio, TX and the engine performed very well. The temp was never a problem and the MPG was around 8.0...I was pushing it pretty hard! So, at this point, I am declaring victory!!!

One final note: if you have a Spartan chassis and cannot get it to go down the road correctly, it is definitely worth the trip to Perry Legends in Columbia, MO to let Bill work on it. He is good, he knows that Spartan chassis, and he treats each coach as though it were his own.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:46 AM   #28
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Congratulations! Now enjoy you coach as you dreamed you would. We love ours!
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