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Old 11-15-2018, 07:08 AM   #1
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Angry Leveling Jacks problems

I have a 2005 Newmar Scottsdale and really like it. I have had problems with the leveling jacks for a long time. Once they would not come back up when I tried to leave my camping site. This time I had to drive to a RV dealer in a nearby town and purchase some brake spray and some silicone spray lubricant. The brake stuff was to 'dissolve' any "gunk" and I was to use it only this once as it could dissolve the rubber gaskets it may come in contact with. Next I was to wipe off and then spray the silicone on the jacks. I was reluctant to do all this, especially since my Newmar manual states that I should never use any lubricant on these jacks. However, I did do all of this and was able to get the jacks to come up so I could travel.
When I got back home I took it to a local RV repair shop and they said I needed new springs on the jacks so I had new springs installed on all four of these jacks. That didn't fix the problem, they still come down off and on while traveling and one in particular (rear passenger one) sometimes won't come back up with the 'store' function on the control panel and I have to get off the road and crawl under the Motorhome and use a short 2x6 board, I use under the jacks while parked, to 'pound' the jack up enough to turn off the ear-splitting "jacks down' warning alarm.
Next I took it to Camping World to have it fixed. They cleaned the jacks and run them up and down several times, charged me a couple hundred dollars, and said they worked fine. Well they didn't. Next time out some came down while traveling and the 'bad one' (rear passenger) had to be pounded back up before that trip was over.
Next I took them to a big RV Dealer in Evansville, IN to have them fixed. They also worked on them, cleaned them, charged a couple hundred dollars and declared them fixed. They were not, same problems still occur.
Next I took them to an RV repair shop in Ocala, FL and asked them to try and fix them. They replaced the control panel for these jack which in near the drivers seat in the vehicle for several hundred dollars. That did seem to help in that it is much more infrequent that the jacks come down while traveling, however, they do still do so. Also, once more that 'bad one' the rear passenger one had to be 'beat' back up.
What I am wondering is if it would be OK to carry a small hydralic jack with me and when this 'bad one' comes down to use this jack to force it back up instead of pounding on it. Or perhaps someone would have a better suggestion on how to deal with this problem. Thanks in advance. --Carl
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:16 AM   #2
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It seems odd to me that nobody has ever actually done anything other than clean the bad jack. Perhaps it needs some specialized attention, or replacement. I'm thinking that one is just slightly bent. Lubing it gets it past the 'hump' for a while. Then it starts sticking again.

Yes, a bottle jack that's short enough to fit under the bad jack when it's stuck partially down sounds like a great idea to me.
Or even scissor jacks from a car. Anything to give you a bit more leverage than the 2x6 and make it less of a chore to get the jack back up where it belongs.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:13 AM   #3
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Boy oh boy Carl, you sure have been through it with the stabilizers. Using your description, I assume yours is hydraulic stabilizers? What brand are they?

In general and using my PowerGear stabilizer experience, I would look at several things. First as Podivin indicated, you may have a damaged piston. I would also look at the activating solenoids. On mine there are three Down solenoids and one retract solenoid. Corrosion, especially the ground wire, or miss wire can cause these to activate.

With new springs, and I hope they actually did install them and they installed the correct ones, I would think the jack legs would stay up unless forced down my fluid pressure. Something is activating the pump.

Question? How far do the jacks actually drop before you have to pound them back up? Have you checked the hydraulic fluid level? In my PG stabilizer jacks the fluid level must be almost completely full or the loud buzzer will sound. Also there is a correct position the fluid level sensor must be in so it won't constantly activate.
Have you ever changed the hydraulic fluid? Its possible water has entered the fluid tank causing weird things to happen.

Also on my PG stabilizer jack legs, there is a Zerk (grease) fitting on the lower part of each leg. These fittings need a standard grease pumped in a couple times a year or so. It makes a big difference in mine.

If you have Power Gear stabilizers, I have several TIP sheets from them I could send to you.
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:37 PM   #4
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Hi Carl! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined the gang!

I can't advise you on this since I have air leveling only, but noticed that you are kinda new on IRV2 and wanted to say hello! Have fun and keep her between the ditches!

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:54 PM   #5
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I agree with the poster that mentioned a bent shaft.

If you can, measure the distance from the retracted PS rear jack (the one that's acting up) to the ground WHILE YOUR AIRBAGS ARE EMPTY.

Let's say you measure 6" between the bottom of the jack pad and the ground.

Subtract 1-2" from that distance and stack up boards to that height and place them under that "funny" jack. That way, when you level, the jack only has to come down 1-2" to make contact - and, hopefully when finally leveled, the "bad spot" will not have been reached during extension and the jack will retract easily when you want to leave.

I've seen some folks place a 2X4 x 6' in the stack under a nasty jack, then, while the jack is trying to retract, they use the leverage of the 2X4 to help lift it up. Yup - kinda hookey - but gets you to the next site with a smile (and dirty knees).
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjshepe View Post
When I got back home I took it to a local RV repair shop and they said I needed new springs on the jacks so I had new springs installed on all four of these jacks. That didn't fix the problem, they still come down off and on while traveling and one in particular (rear passenger one) sometimes won't come back up with the 'store' function on the control panel and I have to get off the road and crawl under the Motorhome and use a short 2x6 board, I use under the jacks while parked, to 'pound' the jack up enough to turn off the ear-splitting "jacks down' warning alarm.

Next I took it to Camping World to have it fixed . . .

Next I took them to a big RV Dealer in Evansville, IN to have them fixed . . .

Next I took them to an RV repair shop in Ocala, FL . ..
At this point, you're the expert here. By now, you must really have a lot of faith in RV service shops.

Since I think you have an HWH system, check out the HWH Master Service Centers.

If your previous service visits were to any of these centers, give HWH a call and tell them your story.
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Old 11-15-2018, 03:42 PM   #7
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I'm guessing HWH jacks but it would help to know.
HWH website has a very good troubleshooting procedures.
Their tech service guys helped me a couple of times - walked me thru several steps that concluded I needed a new shuttle valve. I did the install as it was simple if you can follow directions and spin a wrench.
Welcome to iRV2...

When my jacks stuck down Usually I could press retract and then pry them up w/ a pry bar and block of wood - shovel would also work.
Good suggestion to add blocking to minimize the extension.
HWH will rebuild jacks if you can remove them and send them in. Cost is for parts req'd & a reasonable rebuild $. Good thing to do during off season but worth troubleshooting as it may be in controls / valves.

If HWH they recommend cleaning jack shafts w/ WD-40 and warn against using silicone. If jacks are coming down there is something more than a sticky shaft.

Search for posts by azpete - he is a wealth of knowledge on HWH jacks and willing to assist iRV2 members... search w/ the google search bar near top - not the forum search feature as it doesn't work very well.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:30 PM   #8
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They are HWH which is supposed to be a very good brand.

I have some doubt that all the springs were actually replaced, they sure didn't all look like new ones.
I don't even know what a solenoid looks like but I would have thought with all the "experts" I have paid to check them out that they are OK.

I also have no idea how I would check the hydraulic fluid but again that should have been done by at least one of the three major companies I had 'fix' them.

The jacks only drop down is very slight amount to set off the alarm and the one 'bad' one does come down about 1/2 to 3/4 an inch when I have to pound it back up.

I'll look to see if there are any 'fittings' to grease them, I have done that on my tractor so I do know what they look like.

Thanks for the suggestions.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:39 PM   #9
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I did call Newmar Corp. and they said that although the 2005 Manual does say don't use any lubricant, especially petroleum based types, they did change the Manual to recommend silicone in the last few years. They restated to be sure and NOT use any petroleum based spray (I would guess that includes my favorite, WD40).
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:32 PM   #10
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You can use WD-40 but wipe off after cleaning shaft.
If its a use coach we do not know what previous owner may have done or not done for maintenance.
Your jacks dropping a 1/4" may indicate the springs may need to be changed because of age, new tapered ends will solve that problem.
The seals in the shaft around piston can become twisted and the jack may need to be replaced, I have had to change two on my coach's over the years.
The solenoids are on your tank fluid reservoir where also the pump is located with a solenoid for power to pump which may have a 40 amp fuse that by now, 05 coach, maybe ready to be changed from moisture crumbling fuse holder and fuse.
Removal of bell vent will have lines on shaft for proper fluid level with all jacks retracted, can use trans fluid or HWH BRAND.
Below in my signature the links will lead you to info on HWH jacks, slides, AC's heating in QT's 1 & 2 and many more answers in QT's # 3 in problem solvers.
This link will also have many answers for you in finding information about your coach, using search's to find answers to your problems also.
Just follow the directions I have given you. I am in the Newmar forum.
Enjoy the forums and safe travels.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjshepe View Post
I did call Newmar Corp. and they said that although the 2005 Manual does say don't use any lubricant, especially petroleum based types, they did change the Manual to recommend silicone in the last few years. They restated to be sure and NOT use any petroleum based spray (I would guess that includes my favorite, WD40).
WD-40 is NOT a lubricant - it is actually a cleaning aid.

The only reason it seems to temporarily lubricate is because of it's surfactants.

Most leveler companies say to NOT use WD-40 as it will end up attracting dirt. The do say you can use it to clean a shaft - but you have to wipe it off thoroughly before you operate the leveler.
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjshepe View Post
I did call Newmar Corp. and they said that although the 2005 Manual does say don't use any lubricant, especially petroleum based types, they did change the Manual to recommend silicone in the last few years.
That is correct. Silicone lube (Dry Type) is what you want.
https://www.amazon.com/MWUR9-08897-S...+lube+dry+type

• Using the wooden blocks to shorten cylinder travel is a good idea. I've been doing that a long time.
• The grease fitting is on the wiper seal. So look right where the chrome shaft goes up into the cylinder. Right there is the wiper seal. You'll see a Zerk fitting fitting there. Give each seal 1 or 2 shots of a multi-purpose grease. Every oil change, I also grease the chassis, and while I'm down there doing that, I grease these seals too.

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Old 11-16-2018, 06:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
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That is correct. Silicone lube (Dry Type) is what you want.
https://www.amazon.com/MWUR9-08897-S...+lube+dry+type

Using the wooden blocks to shorten cylinder travel is a good idea. I've been doing that a long time.
The grease fitting is on the wiper seal. So look right where the chrome shaft goes up into the cylinder. Right there is the wiper seal. You'll see a Zerk fitting fitting there. Give each seal 1 or 2 shots of a multi-purpose grease. Every oil change, I also grease the chassis, and while I'm down there doing that, I grease these seals too.

Do the springs have tapered ends? - the newer springs have a taper on the ends - I believe all the older ones were straight.
Have you looked up azpete? He is Mr HWH and is very helpful and knowledgeable. Therre are too many folks here giving you info for other jack mfgs or repeating myths - Sorry just my opinion

Sorry to disagree but if they are HWH they recommend NOT using silicone.
Best advice is to READ THE MFG RECOMMENDATIONS, FAQ, AND TROUBLESHOOTING.


HWH NEVER RECOMMENDS POUNDING ON A STUCK JACK... YOU MAY CAUSE MORE DAMAGE.

From the attached....

If the jack rod has been greased or silicone sprays have been used on the jack rod, use WD-40 to loosen
the grease or silicone and wipe the rod clean.

Maintenance for jacks that will not store or retract slowly.

If jack will not retract and it is determined that the jack is the problem, extend the jack slightly more. Then spray a liberal amount of WD-40 on the jack rod. Store the jack as you normally would. If the jack will still not retract, contact HWH for assistance. The cylinder will have to be replaced or repaired.
If a jack is slow to retract, before storing the jacks, spray a liberal amount of WD-40 on the jack rod(s) and store the jacks as you normally would.
Excess WD-40 should be removed from the jack or jack foot after storing the jacks. Cleaning the jack rod as explained above should be done.
Using WD-40 to assist in the retracting of jacks will probably not be a permanent fix. Anytime a jack needs assistance when retracting, some type of repair of the jack such as new springs or replacement of the jack will be needed to make a permanent repair.
If the system is still in warranty, contact HWH customer service as soon as possible to get assistance in making the repair.
If the system is out of warranty, there are options such as having a cylinder repaired or replacing the cylinder with a remanufactured unit if available. If desired, constant use of WD-40 to assist the retraction of the jack(s) will not damage the jacks.
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File Type: pdf HWH Maint Clean - Lube ml47149.pdf (17.4 KB, 5 views)
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:25 AM   #14
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Contact Paul at AZPETE on the Irv2 forum. He works for HWH and can answer your questions. His email is pfmaddox@att.net and his phone number is 602-549-3638. He is a Commercial Member and has posted that his phone is always on, and if not answered, leave a message.

He has helped others on this forum and I am sure he can help you
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