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Old 06-11-2016, 07:14 PM   #15
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Thanks for the education Steve, I was a bit off with my thoughts. Gives me a new perspective as to what I am looking at. Perhaps older is better in some regards.
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:42 AM   #16
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1999 Fleetwood American Tradition 40 VS Cummins no DEF no emission anything and the engine runs clean no black smoke
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:47 AM   #17
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The ISC is an 8.3 liter engine. The ISL is 8.9 liter. The two engines are contemporaries and are both produced concurrently. They share a block design as the ISL is an ISC with a larger displacement. The DPF is an EPA mandate and is required on all engines built after 1/1/2007 through current production. The DEF is a technique to meet EPS requirements concerning nitrous oxide. All these EPA requirements are cumulative. EGR valves were added for '04 requirements. EPF was added in '07 and DEF in '10. A current production diesel will contain all three. A current diesel costs close to double what the same engine cost in the year 2000.

The Monaco Dynasty may be one of the most bang for the buck coaches in motorhomes.
Are the newer engines that have all of this emission stuff any more or less reliable than earlier models or do they require more maintenance than earlier versions? It has been said the newer versions produce more power and cleaner burning so this go without more problems?
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Old 06-12-2016, 10:02 AM   #18
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Are the newer engines that have all of this emission stuff any more or less reliable than earlier models or do they require more maintenance than earlier versions? It has been said the newer versions produce more power and cleaner burning so this go without more problems?

The new diesels are certainly very complex. The most reliable engines ever produced were probably mechanical diesels built before computer controls which started in the late '90s. The EGR system which has been around since the '04 EPA requirements were very problematic. DEF has enabled engine builders to "detune" the EGR which has kicked up Hp ratings and fuel economy. There is a device called the "Ugly Fix" available now which essentially turns the EGR off which is a boon to owners of engines that employ EGR systems.
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Old 06-12-2016, 10:28 AM   #19
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The new diesels are certainly very complex. The most reliable engines ever produced were probably mechanical diesels built before computer controls which started in the late '90s. The EGR system which has been around since the '04 EPA requirements were very problematic. DEF has enabled engine builders to "detune" the EGR which has kicked up Hp ratings and fuel economy. There is a device called the "Ugly Fix" available now which essentially turns the EGR off which is a boon to owners of engines that employ EGR systems.
I've heard great things from OTR drivers about this place. Can't believe I spent a couple nights there last year and missed the opportunity to at least go talk with them.

http://dieseldoctordiagnostics.com/p...ckages/4438917

My EGR went south in Flagstaff. That's a whole 'nother story, but I will definetly consider this next time we pass through Effingham.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:45 PM   #20
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Recent changes in our family have now put me closer to retiring, selling our home and roaming around for a year or more. We want to get out of SoCal and in the process of seeking out a new place we want to explore. We love our coach but I may be wanting to tow a trailer that exceeds the 5,000lb rating. I am considering a 40 foot range Monoco, Alpine, Tiffin or any others in that catagory. I want the 400+ HP and 1,200lbs of torque. I do not want to spend the money on a new one but I have been looking at several that are around 2004 to 2008. My wife thinks I am nuts for turning in our 2014 for a 10 year old coach but I tell her not to worry since the better quality diesels are long lasting rigs. May only keep it for a couple of years also depending on where we decide to settle. Anyone with experience care to give some opinions and advise on what is a better coach and years to look for and stay away from? When did DEF start coming into play and is that a bad thing? There are some nice looking rigs out there with low miles and less than $100K but if newer is better that is an option too.
Couple of things come to mind - IMHO 9-12 year old Coaches are in the Engine "Sweet Spot" a little simpler, reliable, good horse power/torque and easy to work on. What you need to do is find one that is used but not Abused, one that fit's your lifestyle - FloorPlan - and one that will be fun.

Couple things on what your worries are on a larger Coach - will I get In? - we do, but because we travel more in the Off Season we are able to enjoy much less crowded (Some times empty) camp grounds. We were in Yellowstone one year for Indian Summer (Late October/November) more buffalo than people, yes it was great. You mention a larger trailer - with a larger Coach you will need to haul less, unless you need a lot of "Toys" and then the engine might need to be a 500HP unit, and possible a double decker trailer.

When we started this process 20 years ago we purchased a 37' gas unit did a coast to coast trip spent time watching sunsets then did Florida texas and the East coast - liked the gas unit but just not Comfortable, so we had a 43' unit built - love it and if I hit the lottery tomorrow I'd keep it.

Hope this was not a boring post and that it helps you in the agony going forward with the hard decision

BOL,

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Old 06-12-2016, 11:35 PM   #21
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I may or may not know someone who has installed the ugly fix on some OTR trucks and 1 DP. Better in all aspects, remember when you had yellow oil in a diesel even after a couple thousand miles? It does that, more boost, yep that too, better mileage, yep, cooler temps? That one not sure about, hard to tell. All around smoother idle. No more $25,000 rebuild costs on low mileage engines due to EGR cooler failing, causing head gasket failure and coolant intrusion. This guy says it's a great product, tested and approved by thousands of OTR truckers and companies. He says finding the barometric pressure sensor is a problem but I hear it's near the back of the motor on the top left side of the valve cover on an ISC and ISL. on ISM it's right next to the intake manifold. Big help on problematic interim engines. Makes buying a dpf engine a little less scary.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:00 AM   #22
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I may or may not know someone who has installed the ugly fix on some OTR trucks and 1 DP. Better in all aspects, remember when you had yellow oil in a diesel even after a couple thousand miles? It does that, more boost, yep that too, better mileage, yep, cooler temps? That one not sure about, hard to tell. All around smoother idle. No more $25,000 rebuild costs on low mileage engines due to EGR cooler failing, causing head gasket failure and coolant intrusion. This guy says it's a great product, tested and approved by thousands of OTR truckers and companies. He says finding the barometric pressure sensor is a problem but I hear it's near the back of the motor on the top left side of the valve cover on an ISC and ISL. on ISM it's right next to the intake manifold. Big help on problematic interim engines. Makes buying a dpf engine a little less scary.
Waiting for the ISX version to get tested and in production.
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:40 AM   #23
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Couple of things come to mind - IMHO 9-12 year old Coaches are in the Engine "Sweet Spot" a little simpler, reliable, good horse power/torque and easy to work on. What you need to do is find one that is used but not Abused, one that fit's your lifestyle - FloorPlan - and one that will be fun.

Couple things on what your worries are on a larger Coach - will I get In? - we do, but because we travel more in the Off Season we are able to enjoy much less crowded (Some times empty) camp grounds. We were in Yellowstone one year for Indian Summer (Late October/November) more buffalo than people, yes it was great. You mention a larger trailer - with a larger Coach you will need to haul less, unless you need a lot of "Toys" and then the engine might need to be a 500HP unit, and possible a double decker trailer.

When we started this process 20 years ago we purchased a 37' gas unit did a coast to coast trip spent time watching sunsets then did Florida texas and the East coast - liked the gas unit but just not Comfortable, so we had a 43' unit built - love it and if I hit the lottery tomorrow I'd keep it.

Hope this was not a boring post and that it helps you in the agony going forward with the hard decision

BOL,

Good info here and not boring, thanks.
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Old 06-13-2016, 09:39 AM   #24
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I am extremely biased, but I my recommendation would by an older high end coach. The quality/materials/craftsmanship is night and day. My coach is 20yrs old, has spent it's entire life stored inside, has 150,000 miles, and easily has another 20yrs in it. With the exception of the entry carpet and the pilot's chair needing to be addressed, it still looks new inside/out. It all depends on how comfortable you are being in an "older" coach and the mental block/anxiety which comes with owning something older in a society where a 5yr old car is "old".

If 20yrs is too old, I would definitely do as mentioned and go 2007 and earlier just to avoid all the emissions headaches which may/may not show up. I think at this point the mfg's have it figured out but every year you go back between now and 2008 your risk exposure increases regarding emissions related engine problems (which unfortunately are rarely cheap to fix).
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