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Old 02-14-2017, 10:38 AM   #1
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Lifeline Batteries

My house batteries in my '99 CC Affinity won't hold a charge so I am considering replacing them with Lifeline GPL-8DA's or 8DL's. My existing batteries have automotive style terminals to which I have to attach a lug type clamp and then the cables attach to that. My question is which style, 8DA or 8DL is preferable and where did you buy them. The best price I have found is at Centex in Texas.
Thanks, Jim
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:46 AM   #2
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My CC came with AGM's and lug connectors. There are adapters to go either way, but personally I would use what you already have and buy the batteries that correspond to that without adapters.
Best price I found on the AGM's was from a dealer in TX even including the shipping. Don't remember the name now since it was in '15.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:28 AM   #3
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Before I would put an adapter on a standard post battery cable to lug type terminal, I'd look for a new set of cables to correctly make this work.. Its important to limit how many adapters, connectors that are in a circuit where there is a lot of current.. each of these connections will have a voltage drop across the connection and also will always the ability to work loose... and become a bad connection....
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Old 02-14-2017, 03:39 PM   #4
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I agree new cables or new cable ends or match the terminal you use now are the best options.

As for the different 8D.. depends on the lay out of the cables. performance wise all alike. The different "Suffix" letters refer to terminal layout and type.

NOTE: that 8D is not much different than a pair of GC-2 capacity wise, but the GC-2 are (each) half the weight, making them easier to wrangle by a factor of at least 4.. Main reason for using GC-2 batteries in RV's.
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:07 PM   #5
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Have you checked here: http://www.powerstridebattery.com/li...le-agm-battery
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:55 PM   #6
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Lifeline 8Ds are great batteries. Hold about 1 kw-hr usable energy each, but as you have seen, weight about 170lbs each.

Just as a point of reference, some LiFe batteries are available in size 27 that weight 45 lbs each, also about 1 kw-hr of energy storage.

The 1/3 of the weight does have a cost, about 3x the price, but it depends what is important to you.
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Old 02-15-2017, 08:38 PM   #7
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I used the L terminals and bought from Tom at trans-specialist 770-634-7530
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:10 AM   #8
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Lifeline 8Ds are great batteries. Hold about 1 kw-hr usable energy each, but as you have seen, weight about 170lbs each.

Just as a point of reference, some LiFe batteries are available in size 27 that weight 45 lbs each, also about 1 kw-hr of energy storage.

The 1/3 of the weight does have a cost, about 3x the price, but it depends what is important to you.
If we use 50% depth of discharge, wouldn't that be 12v x 125 ah = 1.5 KWH?

Marc
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Old 03-04-2017, 03:25 PM   #9
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If we use 50% depth of discharge, wouldn't that be 12v x 125 ah = 1.5 KWH?

Marc
Good point - it depends on how they are used. The 1.5 KWH is correct if your draw (discharge) rate is even over a 20 hour period. That is roughly:

1500 watt hours / 20 hours = 75 watts, or the same as running a modest light bulb for 20 hours.

While technically correct, no one ever asks me to help with a project like that.

For nearly all of the projects that I get involved with, people want to run the air conditioner off of batteries, so a more typical setup that I run into, the draw is 1 KW (average).

If you build a bank of 4 each 8D Lifeline AGMS and pull at 1 KW, the increased discharge rate reduces the actual useful capacity to 1 KW-Hr each, so that kind of "battery bank increment" will run the A/C for 4 hours. This is the "4 hour" rate. In order to get 8 hours, you just double up, but it is a lot of weight and pretty big.

Kind of regardless of if the draw rate is the 20 hour, 5 hour, etc, a PREMIUM quality size 27 LiFe will match or exceed the LifeLine 8D AGM. That being said, nothing wrong with them at all if used properly and $700 is a lot cheaper than $3K.

Especially in retrofit projects, what tends to happen is people want as much capacity as can physically fit in the space, and that means the smaller, lighter, premium grade LiFe setups.
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:43 AM   #10
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Good point - it depends on how they are used. The 1.5 KWH is correct if your draw (discharge) rate is even over a 20 hour period. That is roughly:

1500 watt hours / 20 hours = 75 watts, or the same as running a modest light bulb for 20 hours.

While technically correct, no one ever asks me to help with a project like that.

For nearly all of the projects that I get involved with, people want to run the air conditioner off of batteries, so a more typical setup that I run into, the draw is 1 KW (average).

If you build a bank of 4 each 8D Lifeline AGMS and pull at 1 KW, the increased discharge rate reduces the actual useful capacity to 1 KW-Hr each, so that kind of "battery bank increment" will run the A/C for 4 hours. This is the "4 hour" rate. In order to get 8 hours, you just double up, but it is a lot of weight and pretty big.

Kind of regardless of if the draw rate is the 20 hour, 5 hour, etc, a PREMIUM quality size 27 LiFe will match or exceed the LifeLine 8D AGM. That being said, nothing wrong with them at all if used properly and $700 is a lot cheaper than $3K.

Especially in retrofit projects, what tends to happen is people want as much capacity as can physically fit in the space, and that means the smaller, lighter, premium grade LiFe setups.
Well, I think that I disagree a little bit, but the devil is in the details....

Let’s do some examples, using round numbers, Lifeline batteries and setting aside inverter overhead for a moment:

A 1KW load is 83 amps at 12v. On a single 8D this represents about a 2.5 hr discharge rate.
83 amps x 2.5 hours = 208 amp hours

At that load, the battery has a capacity of about 212 ah which is 2.5 KWH. So if we have a target depth of discharge of 50%, we have 1.25KW available to us if we want to maintain our 1,000 cycle battery life. If the application is only occasional use, we can go to 2.4kwh and get half the number of cycles.

For a 1KW load, we would select a battery bank with the equivalent storage capacity of four or six 8D’s. To use your number, four 8D’s. That is 1,000 ah (1200 KWH) at the 20 hour rate.

A 1KW load on four 8D’s would be about an 11hr rate (83 amps x 11 hours = 913ah) giving us a 944 ah battery bank, which is 1.4 kwh per battery at 50% DOD. So, the 1 KW A/C unit would run about 5.5 hours to reach 50% depth of discharge at about 12.1v. Plus, you have the ability to run 8 hours occasionally if needed.

Technically, my numbers are conservative because an inverter is a constant wattage device, but the battery is a variable voltage device. The wattage is constant, but the battery characteristics would be better than I am showing. Plus your 8D price is too high.

1KW at the beginning of the discharge cycle is 1000 watts /12.8v = 78 amps per hour
1KW at the mid point of the discharge cycle is 1000 watts/12.4v = 80 amps per hour
1KW at 50% discharged = 1000 watts/ 12.1v = 83 amps per hour

I do a lot of applications with coaches, boats, off grid solar homes and heavy duty industrial applications – around 2,500 large AGM’s per year. Note that I do not argue against LiFe, its time is definitely coming! The transition may be slow for now, but when the world sees a proven long life with a strong safety record, thousands of deep cycle claims proven in the field for long enough - the world will come running.

Correct me if I missed something - it's Sunday morning and I haven't had enough coffee yet.

Edit to add: Could you post a link to the technical specs for the Lithium batteries that you prefer. In particular, what are the temperature charge/discharge specs?

Respectfully,
Marc
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Old 03-05-2017, 03:58 PM   #11
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I used the L terminals and bought from Tom at trans-specialist 770-634-7530
X's 2. Tom gave me great expert assistance, and I felt the price was fair - can't do much better then that!

Best of luck to you on your shopping,
Smitty
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:29 PM   #12
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Marc Kurth - Thanks for posting and the helpful information.
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Old 03-08-2017, 07:36 AM   #13
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Thanks everyone for all of the great input. I ended up purchasing (2) Lifeline 8DL's from Centex batteries in Texas. $586 ea plus $90 in shipping. I haven't installed them yet but will keep you posted.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:03 AM   #14
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Thanks everyone for all of the great input. I ended up purchasing (2) Lifeline 8DL's from Centex batteries in Texas. $586 ea plus $90 in shipping. I haven't installed them yet but will keep you posted.


Update:
Lifelines are installed and I connected my solar negative cable to run through the MEK shunt to measure amps returned to the batteries from the solar cells. On my first 7 day trip using only the fridge, lights, water pump, surround sound system, tv and microwave, the batteries never went below 12.4 volts. The solar system fully charged the batteries during the day and I never had to use the generator! Of course, air conditioning wasn't needed or I would have had to run the generator. I'm very happy with the lifeline investment so far.
One thing I don't have is an automatic generator start (ags) module. Does anyone have any experience with these devices and do you think they are necessary or worth the $275 investment plus install?
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