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Old 11-21-2014, 06:41 PM   #1
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Lithium batteries

I have been looking into lithium batteries and they seem to be the way to go for RV's . Is there any MH be made with them.Why are these not used more when replacement time come around
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:46 PM   #2
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Price, mostly. Only the top end brands usually come with pricey AGMs, and lithium is even more expensive than that.

Besides, it's not clear to me that lithium has all that much advantage over AGM lead-acid for a deep cycle. An AGM coupled with a good quality 3-stage charger and you should only need new batteries every 6-8 years anyway. And if you have the typical crappy single stage charger that many rvs come with, buying an expensive battery is a waste of money.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:09 PM   #3
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Gary hit the highpoints about cost, not just for the battery, but also charging systems too. If you have Solar Panels, that would be another change point as well.

Technomedia has been one of the early adopters, you might find his sites info interesting.

A Year On Lithium | Technomadia

I'm a big fan of Elon Musk, the new Lithium Battery plant that is to be built outside of Reno - could be a game changer on lower price Lithium batteries. So, this is technology that I'm watching closely. We are about 19 months into a X's 4 LG16 Lifeline's - so I hope I do not need to replace these for another 6-8 years!

Lot's of plusses with lithium battery, but, if you are not a full time heavy boondocker, not sure if they really are needed?

Best to you on your research,
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:19 PM   #4
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One big plus for Lithium batteries that has not yet been noted is that they can SAFELY be discharged to over 90% of their capacity without suffering any negative consequences, whereas Lead acid and even AGM type lead acid batteries should never be discharged below their 50% capacity at risk of shortening the life span. A second plus is that Lithium chemistry batteries are much lighter. The bottom line, you can stuff Lithium batteries where you previously had AGMs and have much more capacity. The down side of course is the price....and the likely need for a different type battery charger.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:48 PM   #5
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I saw a lithium battery of group 27 size at the Yuma flea market. At a glance, I thought the price tag said $120. I took a second look and saw another zero. For one battery. Is $1200 for a lithium battery in the ball park? No wonder electric vehicles are so pricey.
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Old 11-22-2014, 11:15 PM   #6
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I saw a lithium battery of group 27 size at the Yuma flea market. At a glance, I thought the price tag said $120. I took a second look and saw another zero. For one battery. Is $1200 for a lithium battery in the ball park? No wonder electric vehicles are so pricey.

That flea market battery is actually fairly cheap.....it may also be a cheaply constructed battery.

Here are the accepted industry standard batteries.... Starting at $2200

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Old 11-23-2014, 12:00 AM   #7
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Lithium batteries

We're seriously looking at Lithium as our next upgrade for 3 main reasons....

-> we can pack in way more amp hours in our existing lead acid space (for close to the same weight)

-> they have more *usable* amp hours (you can regularly discharge them down to 80% as opposed only ~50% with lead acid)

-> they require NO absorb charge. This last one means way faster charging (bulk all the way!) and no need to wait hours for the final absorb charge to finish like lead acid

Since we boondock about half the year, these are all pretty nifty features. For folks who don't boondock much they won't mean anything (and frankly Lithium doesn't make sense for people who don't boondock much)

Like others said price is the main reason most folks don't use them. For the majority of RVers and part time boondockers regular lead acid is cheap and perfectly fine.
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Old 11-23-2014, 04:59 AM   #8
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One thing I have read about recently with Lithium batteries is the dangers should your charger mess up.... Seems they can do some nasty things if they get overcharged and some failure modes of the battery and some of the converter, result in overcharge of at least selected cells.

OF course lead acid do nasty stuff when that happens too but not nearly as nasty, I mean worlds less nasty.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
One big plus for Lithium batteries that has not yet been noted is that they can SAFELY be discharged to over 90% of their capacity without suffering any negative consequences, whereas
And discharging them further than that can be terminal. Same with overcharging.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:29 AM   #10
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Lithium batteries

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And discharging them further than that can be terminal. Same with overcharging.

Indeed, you need a smart charger with safeguards against both excess discharge and overcharging. We just upgraded to the MSH3012 which is totally custom programmable and lithium ready (e.g. You can set absorb time to zero). Our system is backed by auto-generator start.
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Old 11-23-2014, 05:06 PM   #11
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Indeed, you need a smart charger with safeguards against both excess discharge and overcharging. We just upgraded to the MSH3012 which is totally custom programmable and lithium ready (e.g. You can set absorb time to zero). Our system is backed by auto-generator start.
Someone quoted that lithium batteries start at 2200.00 assuming that is for 12 volts you are 2000.00 more than sams club batteries to compare to something cheap. If you buy 2 that is 4000.00 more than having the common 4 6 volt battery configuration that a lot of people have. You mentioned a fully programmable charger, which I assume is not an inverter charger so that would be another expense. If you boondock and use the 4 battery configuration with an autostart generator which starts when batteries are 60 per cent discharged for instance. How does the extra 4000.00 plus charger compare to generator diesel useage in a strictly monetary sense.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:36 PM   #12
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Lithium batteries

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Someone quoted that lithium batteries start at 2200.00 assuming that is for 12 volts you are 2000.00 more than sams club batteries to compare to something cheap. If you buy 2 that is 4000.00 more than having the common 4 6 volt battery configuration that a lot of people have. You mentioned a fully programmable charger, which I assume is not an inverter charger so that would be another expense. If you boondock and use the 4 battery configuration with an autostart generator which starts when batteries are 60 per cent discharged for instance. How does the extra 4000.00 plus charger compare to generator diesel useage in a strictly monetary sense.

Geez...so many random questions in here.

For costs you have to compare total amp hours and usable battery life cycles. You can't just take a price and compare to 4 sams club batteries. Lithium prices have come down a lot since this article, but here's a good example of a detailed cost analysis:
http://www.technomadia.com/2011/11/l...-battery-cost/

We have a combo inverter/charger. Always have. Not sure I understand your question on an inveter/charger compared to a generator?? Apples to oranges? While we're off grid we use solar for our power, a solar charger to charge our batteries and our combo inverter/charger to produce power for our internal AC appliances. Since our solar covers pretty much everything we need we almost never need to run the generator. While on grid our combo inverter/charger charges our batteries and can also do load-share (between solar, battery and grid power). The AGS is simply there as a backup...and if/when we go lithium it'll be there as a last-case safety stop (just in case) to prevent batteries draining below 20% (a very safe margin).

If we didn't have solar/batteries and an inverter/charger we'd be running our generator every time we needed power off-grid. We boondock a lot so the solar makes sense for us. If you don't boondock a lot or don't mind the sound of a generator running constantly then none of this makes sense to invest in.
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:12 AM   #13
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Talked with a very nice gentleman in Arizona and he showed me his 24 volt lithium powered coach (Prevost Marathon). He had special ordered his and he said that it would take 8-8D AGM batteries to equal what he had. That would be a lot of weight savings at 200 lbs each for the 8D's. I don't recall the exact figure on the cost of the lithiums but they were many thousands of dollars. So yes, they are offered in some coaches.....if you have the very deep pockets to pay for it.


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Old 11-24-2014, 10:13 AM   #14
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At this point the only reason to put in lithium batteries is to able to brag to your friends how much money you wasted.
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