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Old 01-30-2015, 01:19 PM   #29
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Hi Wadders,
My wife and I have B2 visas issued in the UK and came to Florida in November using our UK passports for the same purpose as you (my wife also has an Australian passport). We bought a diesel pusher at Lazydays in Tampa and registered it to our LLC in Montana. The process was pretty straight forward and we used $49 dollar Montana Registered Agent LLC whom I would recommend.
I would also thoroughly recommend Lazydays especially Sharon Harmon who has dealt with UK purchasers in the past.
We bought a toad as well and had problems with some auto dealers who didn't understand the LLC registration and declined to sell us a car! We eventually dealt with a Toyota dealer who was superb and sorted everything for us with the Montana Registration authority.
We found insurance much more expensive in the US as they wouldn't accept past driving records; luckily we have friends in Florida and used their address to obtain a Florida driving licence which reduced the insurance substantially.
Although the US may legitimize illegals, UK and Canadian citizens have to leave the country after 6 months; we are spending summer in Canada then hoping to enter the US again on the Eastern seaboard in the Fall for a further 6 months.
Good luck with your plans and if you would like any help on the intricacies just let us know.
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:54 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by lindavid1 View Post
Hi Wadders,
My wife and I have B2 visas issued in the UK and came to Florida in November using our UK passports for the same purpose as you (my wife also has an Australian passport). We bought a diesel pusher at Lazydays in Tampa and registered it to our LLC in Montana. The process was pretty straight forward and we used $49 dollar Montana Registered Agent LLC whom I would recommend.
I would also thoroughly recommend Lazydays especially Sharon Harmon who has dealt with UK purchasers in the past.
We bought a toad as well and had problems with some auto dealers who didn't understand the LLC registration and declined to sell us a car! We eventually dealt with a Toyota dealer who was superb and sorted everything for us with the Montana Registration authority.
We found insurance much more expensive in the US as they wouldn't accept past driving records; luckily we have friends in Florida and used their address to obtain a Florida driving licence which reduced the insurance substantially.
Although the US may legitimize illegals, UK and Canadian citizens have to leave the country after 6 months; we are spending summer in Canada then hoping to enter the US again on the Eastern seaboard in the Fall for a further 6 months.
Good luck with your plans and if you would like any help on the intricacies just let us know.
Thank you lindavid for giving the original poster the best source of info he could get. As a fellow UK visitor you have "been there and done that" which is the perfect response.

Ed
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:07 PM   #31
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Thank you lindavid for giving the original poster the best source of info he could get. As a fellow UK visitor you have "been there and done that" which is the perfect response.

Ed
Totally agree, Ed! lindavid1's post gets right down to addressing the OP's inquiry without all the extraneous off-topic "opinions."

This should put an end to this conversation ...until the next time it's brought up.
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Old 01-31-2015, 05:06 AM   #32
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Once again, so much fear mongering and mis-information. I usually try to avoid these posts like the plague, as the old saying: Only and Idiot argues with and Idiot. But I read post after post, where people spout off information as fact, but the information has no basis in fact, just hyperbole and conjecture. Then there are the ones that double down on their mis-information and throw out more mis-information to further support their previous mis-information.

You are 100% wrong with this statement, please do not spread mis-information. You can have it any way you want it depending on what activity your are engaging in. Also a school or church is not required to have a CDL driver just becuase they are a business. The requirement to have a CDL as it relates to a school or church, is based on the NUMBER of passengers a school bus is CAPABLE of carrying. IIRC, the number is 30 passengers, over 30 triggers the requirment to have a CDL, under 30 and its all good, but I am willing to admit that number could be 29 or 31, but the point is the same. The Church you go to may require this of you, but that is not the law.

I know this with 100% certainty as one of the business I own is a private school. We made the mistake when buying our first bus, that exceeded the 30 passenger threashold requirement, thereby triggering the requirement to have a CDL driver drive the bus. After several discussions with the TxDPS, we were advised, that we needed to get smaller buses in the future if we did not want to employ CDL drivers, which we did. Now all of our buses only are cappable of carrying 29 passengers, and none of our drivers are required to have a CDL. But what does this have to do with a Montana LLC, nothing.

Once again, 100% wrong. By your post, you show just how little you know about this subject. This topic is on a Montana LLC, but yet you are referring to a "non-profit LLC" and throwing in 501c3 & 501c4. There is no such thing as a "non-profit LLC", this does not existing in our legal system, nor is recognized by the IRS which governs non-profts. Once again, we are talking about a Montana LLC, not a non-profit structure. 501c3 & 501c4 are both non-profit structures, however we are not talking about them, we are talking about Montana, LLC.

What law are you referring to? It is quite clear, you are stating your person belifs on this issue, and trying to make them law. Case law is in fact very clear on this issue, and it does not support your statement in any shape or form.

Let expand on this even further, let say one wanted to start up a car rental business, we can call it Hartz. We then went out into the world and purchase several cars to rent. People flocked to our lot to rent our cars. Because all these cars were owned by Hartz LLC, would every renter be required to have a CDL? Of course not. IF every renter had their own Auto Insurance, would each renter be required to buy "Commerical Insurance"? Of course not. I know for a fact, that millions of cars are rented each year by ordinary people, who do not have a CDL or "Commerical Insurance" and the sky has not fallen yet.

Just becuase a vehicle is registered to a business, does not meet the threashold required to prove business use. This practice of protecting assets is used throughout the US and is recognized by the courts as such. While it is clear that you do not agree with this practice, it does not make it wrong.

Yup, 100% wrong again. Not one single word in that statement is remotly close to the correct. Case law is very clear on this subject. If your statement was true, every rental company & leasing company would be out of business tomorrow.

This is a true and corrects statement, finally. Here is why. IF a person is engaging in a activitiy whereas money is received as a result of this activity, IE transporting vehicles, then this activity is considered a "Commerical Activity" by the fedral motor vehicle code and thereby triggers one of requiremets for a Commericial License IF the overall weight of the vehicle meets the weight limits requiring such. Its a two part threshold, A. is money involved? B. is the vehicle(s) involved over the 26,000 lbs threasold. IF yes to both, then Commerical License is required.

Once again, the OP asked for help on a subject he was unfamilar with. Some have contributed good and helpful information, some have not. Please do not engage in fear mongering and spreading mis-information, it does not help the OP, nor does it help anyone else who may have questions on the subject.
I believe you are spreading misinformation that is the problem. You don't have a CDL, and have never been subject to any of the nonsense commercial drivers are. Rental trucks including rental RVs are exempt under 26,000# in most states. Oh and as a licensed CDL holder I do in fact have to know the law! For vehicles designed to carry people the law in Washington is if it is designed to carry over 16 people including the driver you must have a CDL. Since this appears to be getting unnecessarily contentious here is a link to the Washington State page for Commercially registered vehicles WA State Licensing (DOL) Official Site: DOT numbers for intrastate commercial vehicles
Types of vehicles that must have a DOT number
If you operate any of the following commercial vehicles within Washington State, you must get a DOT number and display it on the vehicle:
Commercial motor vehicles with Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 16,001 pounds or more.
Combinations of commercial motor vehicles including a towed unit with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or more and having a total GVWR of 16,001 pounds or more.
Commercial motor vehicles of any size used in the transportation of placarded hazardous materials.
Commercial motor vehicles designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.
Private school buses of any weight or size.
Here is a link to the Washington state law on the subject. RCW 46.25.050: Commercial driver's license required — Exceptions, restrictions, reciprocity.
There is an exemption for RVs and rental trucks under 26,000. However it does not apply to a corporation.

Here is a good site about this topic. RV Driver's License Requirements
I think some of the confusion is related to conflating the multiple operative terms:
"Commercial Vehicle" = any vehicle licensed to a business or corporation regardless of use
"Commercial Vehicle Requireing a CDL driver" = any vehicle licensed to a business or corporation with a gross combination weight rating over 26,000#
"Commercial Vehicle requiring a DOT (Federal) Number" = any vehicle licensed to a corporation or business with a Gross Combined Weight Rating over 16,000
"Commercial Use" = any vehicle used for a profit or non-profit entity
"For hire" = A vhicle used to transport people or goods for payment
"Rental vehicle" = A vehicle owned by one person or entity and used for payment for a short period typically less than 30 days
"LLC" = Limited Liability Corporation
"Corporation" = A non-person business entity
"Recreational Use exception" = allows a vehicle licensed to a natural person be operated without complying with CDL, Fuel Tax, and other regulations
"Rental use exception" = allows non-CDL holders to operate trucks and other rental vehicles up to 26,000# without a CDL on a short term basis

The laws have changed recently due to Federal safety regulations. In the past it was much simpler.
I don't really care what people do. If they want to get a Montana LLC go for it. However, it should be done knowing the facts and laws. I have a CDL and I have chosen to not license my RV under an LLC. I don't want the hassle, reporting requirements, log books, commercial insurance etc that I would have to have. It would be very difficult for me to try to claim I didn't know the law, since I am required to in my day job.

The, OP did not say what size RV he intends to get, if they get an RV under 26,000 GCWR then all of this is moot.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:30 AM   #33
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The difficulty here is the interpretation of quite literally, one word. An LLC is NOT a corporation and I know of no state that uses the term corporation in their statutes. An LLC is a Limited Liability Company, not a corporation. A corporation is an entirely different entity. A company is not by definition or practice a business entity. For example you will see a dance company, an acting company, and so on. I have no doubt that the information posted about CDL's is completely accurate, but the term corporation is the one major inaccuracy.

There are at least three of us that have posted on this thread who have some pretty extensive experience with LLC's. From my situation, I'm a practicing CPA who has had my own practice for over 35 years and I teach the use and taxation of LLC's to other CPA's. In a nutshell, we have some pretty heavy expertise in this area.

An LLC is not a business entity and, as such, its use for ownership of any asset only changes the legal liability of the owner of that asset. It does not in any way, shape, or form change that asset to a business asset which means that it does not change any requirement for the user of that asset.

I hope this helps to clarify things.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:52 AM   #34
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Can anyone tell me if there is a definitive list of Montana LLC companies anywhere, or any recommendations of one of them. We are UK residents but will be buying an rv in florida and using it for 6 months around the south East States to start with. so we want to set up an LLC and register the vehicles through that.
Thanks for any info.
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Cheating the tax man or avoiding taxes is illegal in all states. Reducing taxes by following the rules is not.
Gordon
I agree.

However, the OP is a UK resident, (aka: not from any state).
Which is most likely a totally different kettle of fish!

Mel
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Old 01-31-2015, 12:34 PM   #35
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Gordon
I agree.

However, the OP is a UK resident, (aka: not from any state).
Which is most likely a totally different kettle of fish!

Mel
Yup - I expect he will have issues from the UK as they are quite heavily taxed I believe and they will want their piece of the pie if applicable.

My reply was in response to a comment about tax issues between states. I have heard of residents who form LLC's simply to avoid (evade) taxes. When their home state catches up with them there is a hue and cry about how punitive their home state is.

I dont like taxes any more than anyone else. I do not agree in a lot of the way taxes are spent. However I do enjoy the benefits my taxes do bring and believe that I am lucky to have enough income to qualify to pay taxes.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:06 PM   #36
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I really don't understand what taxes one might possibly think the UK is losing out on. If he buys the unit here in the US, uses it here in the US, and then sells it here, what is the UK missing out on? That's almost like saying that if I go to dinner in PA then I should pay NY the sales tax even though dinner was consumed in PA.

Folks, taxes are complex but one simple factor remains, if you comply with the laws of your own state then you have not violated any laws. I know of no one who voluntarily pays more in taxes than they owe. If someone believes there is a moral obligation to pay more taxes than are legally owed, by all means go for it. I know of no rational people who do that.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:53 PM   #37
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wa8yxm

"The idea of the Montana LLC is to cheat the tax man.", is just not factual. I understand that this is your opinion, but please...The best advise that 'wadders' can receive is to contact attorneys in Montana that specialize in forming LLCs.

If you take the time to research the issue you will find several Colorado RVers with Montana LLCs got burned, I believe California also burned a few,, Michigan was looking at it (But Since I am legal in MI. I did not follow that) and some other states.

So my warning was based on history, nothing more... If you want to do the Montana LLC thing.. I will not cost me anything and thus I do not have any emotional involvement, Just tryign to save you grief.

I am told that it is possible to do it legally,, but I have yet to see evidence of that.
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Old 01-31-2015, 03:05 PM   #38
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WOW, as they say here in England "that opened up a can of worms"

Thankyou for all the responses, there are certainly some interesting thoughts out there on the subject.
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Old 01-31-2015, 06:45 PM   #39
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This topic always seems to bring out some interesting comments and opinions. Sadly the opinions seem to outweigh the facts, but it can make for some unique reading. Bottom line is that you do have a fellow UK resident who has done this before so he/she should be able to guide you going forward.

Enjoy the US and safe travels to you. We hope to meet up with you on the road.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:13 PM   #40
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I really don't understand what taxes one might possibly think the UK is losing out on. If he buys the unit here in the US, uses it here in the US, and then sells it here, what is the UK missing out on? That's almost like saying that if I go to dinner in PA then I should pay NY the sales tax even though dinner was consumed in PA.

Folks, taxes are complex but one simple factor remains, if you comply with the laws of your own state then you have not violated any laws. I know of no one who voluntarily pays more in taxes than they owe. If someone believes there is a moral obligation to pay more taxes than are legally owed, by all means go for it. I know of no rational people who do that.
No idea either. However I am not at all familiar with how the UK taxes it's residents, their property or anything else.

Generally speaking if you follow the rules you will be OK. Unfortunately it sometimes depend upon which taxman agent you speak with. Sometimes they do not know the answers either.

No experience in international law but I do know that as a US citizen you can have an offshore account but I believe you are required to report income on the account to the taxman. You are in a better position to address that.
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:51 PM   #41
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I really don't understand what taxes one might possibly think the UK is losing out on. If he buys the unit here in the US, uses it here in the US, and then sells it here, what is the UK missing out on? That's almost like saying that if I go to dinner in PA then I should pay NY the sales tax even though dinner was consumed in PA.

Folks, taxes are complex but one simple factor remains, if you comply with the laws of your own state then you have not violated any laws. I know of no one who voluntarily pays more in taxes than they owe. If someone believes there is a moral obligation to pay more taxes than are legally owed, by all means go for it. I know of no rational people who do that.
^^^ THAT is a very logical reasoning. And the last paragraph is so profound.

Those of you who continually and blanketly claim that registering an RV in a Montana LLC is illegal and doing so is evading taxes are making a true statement only if in fact, one is doing it illegally ...if that makes sense.

Of course it's illegal if, as an example, a Colorado resident with a stick house uses a Montana LLC to register their motorhome and keeps it on their property while only using it for vacations once in awhile and does not leave the state of Colorado except for those vacations or occasionally on the weekends, etc. Yes, in that case, they are breaking the law and the state of Colorado has the right to go after those individuals who are using a Montana LLC in a illegal and inappropriate manner. You can't blame the state of Colorado for doing so.

However, let's say in another example, a state has laws that require a resident to register a vehicle within 60-days of it being in the state (a law that might typically be directed toward new residents who are moving to that state). If a vehicle does not remain inside the state for more than 60-days, does it then have to be registered in that state?

A retired couple who leaves that state for an extended trip every month or two may be able to comply with such a law. A full-timer who may own property in that state and still uses it for domicile purposes may be able to comply with such a law. A working couple with children or even a couple who are empty nesters and are still working may find it DIFFICULT to comply with such a law. Those who can't comply shouldn't even attempt to use a Montana LLC to register their motorhome. Why? ...because they are breaking the vehicle registration laws of their state.

Those who can't comply run the risk of being "caught" by their "home" state where they will be fined and required to pay back taxes and fees. That makes sense and nobody should have pity on such people that are not adhering to the laws of their "home" state. They should have been aware of these laws before registering their motorhome in a Montana LLC. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

However, those of you who keep insisting that ANYBODY and EVERYBODY using a Montana LLC to register their motorhome are scofflaws, are cheating their home state, or are breaking the law whether if be Federal, local, or Montana laws, are doing a disservice to those asking for advice or seeking information about using a Monatana LLC. It DEFINITELY is not for everybody, it DEFINITELY is not something that MOST RVers should consider doing but for those who can do so without breaking any laws, it could work well ...specifically, those who can leave their home state frequently in order to comply with what triggers vehicle registration in that state.

My apologies, I'm off-topic again but just felt the need to reiterate.
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Old 02-01-2015, 02:02 PM   #42
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THEROC - great post. It says what I think the majority of posters believe.

IMO we are all able to take whatever legal measures are available to reduce taxes. But we have to abid by all of the rules, not just the ones that are convenient to ourselves. Too many are prepared to take the easy steps and complain when they are caught.

Your examples illustrate this very well.
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