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Old 05-10-2012, 11:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
I found the requirement in the Alcoa Service Manual on page 30, 31 and 32.
Here's the link to it so you can see for yourself.
Thanks for that manual link. Informative for other reasons.

My take is not to over read that. And, depending on your lugnut type, lubrication may change torque significantly. While the Alcoa manual does say it is OK to lube the threads only, and lightly, it also says new hardware should not. To read lube as a requirement is a little strong, particularly if your lug hardware is still in new like condition. If your lug nut flanges and threads are binding or lightly corroded, sure, give the threads a couple drops. Otherwise, take the generically safer approach and leave the oil on the shelf. Judgement and prudence seem to be the real message, not requirement. YMMV
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ottffss View Post
thanks for that manual link. Informative for other reasons. ...
thanks x2
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:04 PM   #31
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I have to ask...why is it only lug nuts that seem to mysteriously loosen themselves?
My way if thinking..if they were "properly" torqued to begin with why would they loosen??
Having installed most likely 10,000 plus wheels back onto vehicles after servicing the vehicle for 20+ yrs and never having a complaint of the wheel falling off in that period of time also makes me wonder. Yes I used a torque wrench set to proper spec on every one of these vehicles!
We don't retorque engine to bellhousing bolts, timing cover bolts, leaf spring bolts, bumper bolts etc etc etc
Actually, we do retorque many bolts on engine builds. Especially heads, mains, rods, and headers. Bolts stretch and 'take a set' after awhile and can loosen. The best way is to actually measure the 'bolt stretch'..

Also remember that wheel studs have already be 'stretched' due to having the wheels and lug nuts on in the first place.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ottffss View Post
Thanks for that manual link. Informative for other reasons.

My take is not to over read that. And, depending on your lugnut type, lubrication may change torque significantly. While the Alcoa manual does say it is OK to lube the threads only, and lightly, it also says new hardware should not. To read lube as a requirement is a little strong, particularly if your lug hardware is still in new like condition. If your lug nut flanges and threads are binding or lightly corroded, sure, give the threads a couple drops. Otherwise, take the generically safer approach and leave the oil on the shelf. Judgement and prudence seem to be the real message, not requirement. YMMV
The only time the hardware is new is at the factory. After that it's old and needs the lube as shown.
And from the torque chart on page 34:
*For nuts used on hub piloted wheels, apply two drops of motor oil to the point between the nut and flange and two drops to the first two or three threads at the tip of each stud (see Section 4-10).
In fact the only torque valuse shown for hub piloted wheels is under the "Lubricated" column. No dry torque is given.
One other thing to remember is that this is ONLY for hub piloted wheels, stud piloted wheels (either steel or aluminum) should NOT be lubed.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:00 PM   #33
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I always put a small (small) dab of nickel-graphite anti-seize on the studs..
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:06 PM   #34
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I use this to remove my lug nuts and have a system that I use to check for torque by letting the handle to return a 1/2 turn when tightening. I can remove my 450 ft/lb lug nuts with one hand.

Welcome To LugWrench.Biz

$160
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:26 PM   #35
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I tend to doubt the lube statement, typically, lugs are torqued dry. If your chassis maker says something different, follow that!



Probably more than just lawyers, the loose wheel/lug nut indicators (pictured below) are required by many state DOT and certainly is an indication that lugs can and do loosen allowing wheels to fall off. Goggling this there seem to be unreferenced reports of some 23,000 wheel detachments annually in the USA and the following pdf with lots of stats indicate very high numbers in the UK.
http://www.fera.org.uk/pdf/FERA%20Se...%20-%20TRL.pdf

I drive for WM and every tire changed gets retorqued the following day. Yes we have to use wheel-nut indicator on all lug nuts
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:14 AM   #36
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Actually, we do retorque many bolts on engine builds. Especially heads, mains, rods, and headers. Bolts stretch and 'take a set' after awhile and can loosen. The best way is to actually measure the 'bolt stretch'..

Also remember that wheel studs have already be 'stretched' due to having the wheels and lug nuts on in the first place.
When was the last time you built an engine? My 482cu in BBC that runs 7500 rpm at the 1/4 mile mark never needs retorquing of the heads or rods or mains..now header bolts are a common thing to loosen..I will give you that one

You do not retorque rod bolts..and rod bolts have a specific life..then get replaced due to stretch..they can only stretch so far prior to becoming weak and unusable

head bolt retorqueing is a thing LONG in the past..gasket materials used for gaskets now do not require retorquing...unless using copper or steel shim..and this retorquing is on initial build after warming engine thoroughly.

When was the last time you took your vehicle in for it's normal maint to have head bolts or rod bolts retorqued?
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:29 AM   #37
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During the initial build, let you head bolts set for awhile then recheck.. Rods are supposed to be tightened to a certain 'stretch', but barring that, you need to retorque.

But, as all things, you can do as you wish. Dont retorque your lugs nuts or do, up to you..
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:42 PM   #38
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During the initial build, let you head bolts set for awhile then recheck.. Rods are supposed to be tightened to a certain 'stretch', but barring that, you need to retorque.

But, as all things, you can do as you wish. Dont retorque your lugs nuts or do, up to you..
Your are right, it is up to the owner to retorque or not.

Your engine reference is not lug nuts nor related to wheels, lug nuts, tire dealers, wheel suppliers etc, beings the topic is to retorque lugs after "some use". Initial build of an engine as you mention is NOT after some use.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:55 AM   #39
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True, but then I didn't bring up the reference to engine building
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