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Old 11-06-2010, 08:41 PM   #1
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M11 Cummins vs. Series 60 Detroit

Considering a used Bluebird. Would appreciate your thoughts on these two engine choices. Longevity, cost of operating, ease of maintenance. Engines will be in the 1998 through 2002 years with 30,000 to 60,000 miles.

Anything to inspect or watch for?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:48 PM   #2
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Ten or more years old with only 60,000 miles? Has the engine been replaced? The rest of the coach likely has 500,000 or better on it so a thorough inspection is in order, the engine is only one component. Either one will give years of good service if properly maintained.
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:02 PM   #3
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Both coach's I am considering have 50,000 miles and the engines have not been replaced or rebuilt. Not uncommon to find 10 year old coach's with an average of 3-6000 miles a year.

Steve
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:09 PM   #4
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Both are very good motors. Blue Birds are very well built coaches. Make SURE!!! you check all systems in the house carefully. Blue Bird uses top grade components and they are great when working and very expensive to fix. My coach was a bit newer and has similar high grade stuff in it to a Blue Bird. I expected and did spend my first year fixing / debugging the issues with the coach which were minor. Cost me 30,000 to get the bugs out and quite a bit of time.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:11 AM   #5
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A lot of difference between the two motors. The M-11 is 659 cubic inches and the Detroit is 846 cubic inches. This larger displacemnt means more torque at a lower RPM so quiter operation. The Detroit is classified as a "Million Mile Motor" and the I am not sure about the M but the later ISM is a 500,000 mile motor. John Bleakley RV who was the Blue Bird dealer here considered the Detroit as the best motor available in a coach. The M-11 later was modified to improve it and became the ISM motor. So this means that the M-11 does not have the improved Interact System. I lot of motor home companies offered the Detroit as an upgrade over the Cummins which should tell you something. It was a fairly expensive upgrade. When I went searching for my latest MH the Detroit was my requirement and it has not let me down. It is a fantastic motor. We do not hear the Detroit at all when driving. All the Prevost conversions had the Detroit motors in them as well as the Greyhound buses.
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:04 PM   #6
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A question for Mike

Mike, any idea what year the M11 went to the ISM?

Also, other than oil, air cleaner, radiator service, does the Series 60 require other engine maintenance such as valve adjustment like the M11/ISM?

Thanks
Steve
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:33 PM   #7
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The M-11 changed to the ISM in 2004 and again changed to the ISM-II in 2005. The Detroit Series 60 requires a valve lash adjustment and a injector height adjustment at 60,000 miles. This costs $400 here in Atlanta and they call it a "tuneup" then it is good to go from there. Detroit says that the motor is about through with the break in at around 60,000 mile and that is why they want to do it. I haven't got to that mileage yet. I do understand that it improves the MPG a little. I average between 6.8 and 7 mpg in my 48,000 lb Signature at 62-65 mpg.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:19 PM   #8
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Mike, the Vintage Birds history page for the 2000 year model shows the Cummins engine listed as an ISM. Is it possible that Bluebird got hold of the new updated engine early?

Thanks


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Old 11-07-2010, 04:02 PM   #9
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I think you are correct. I researched some more and found out that in 2002 the ISM motors changed and added the EGR system. This indicates that they were around before 2002 so 2000 maybe correct.

Helpful Cummins ISM Information

Detroit Diesel - Series 60 Heavy-Duty Diesel Engine
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