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Old 09-14-2010, 12:11 PM   #15
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Wa8yxm,
That's a very thorough and comprehensive diagnostic tree you have provided.

I am amazed at the number of times a person will say, "I checked the outlet, (or fuse, or relay, etc.) and it "LOOKED" good." (Not referring to you, smorgan.)

The only way to know if a fuse, relay or solenoid is good is to TEST it.
Again, good write-up!
Jim
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:45 PM   #16
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I just thought of someting regarding AC.

Air Conditioning on many rigs needs 120vac, period.

On MY rig.. it needs both 120vac (Operating power) and 12VCD (Control power)

so, even AC not working (If he means air conditioning) could be dead battery caused by dead converter.

And to Good Man.. Thank you for the complement.. More years ago than I care to admit I studied electronics, and computers (Amazing how they fit together) Never worked gainfully in the field (Well did get 30 bucks once for a computer program)

But for over 40 years I have worked in electronics as a hobby.. If it is possible to mess it up... Odds are I've done it
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:18 AM   #17
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AC outlets only work when gen on?

Just put in 4 new Trojan T105's. This problem was present before I replaced the batteries. Needed replacement anyway.
All is working super except, when not on shore power, AC outlets have no power. If generator is running all AC outlets have power.
Could someone elaborate on "contactor" comment mentioned previously?

thanks...grampakoot
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:09 AM   #18
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Grampakoot, I see from your profile you have a 1998 Allegro Bus. I'm not sure whether they were putting inverters in them in that year (they're standard nowadays in the Bus), but if you don't have one you won't get AC out of your outlets except as you described.

The "contactor" is an Automatic Transfer Switch, it will automatically switch between shore power and generator power. It sounds like it is working fine in you case.

There are also built-in automatic transfer switches in inverter-chargers, but if you have an inverter with no built-in charger there will be a second external transfer switch to switch the inverter in when there is no shore or generator power.

Please post your inverter model so we can help you better, otherwise we're just guessing.

Thanks,
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:20 AM   #19
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Thanks Luv2go.
It is a Heart Interface Model 20D.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smorgan View Post
I have a 1999 Allegro Bay motorhome with a Ford V10 engine. It is 32'.

The last time I went camping everything worked fine for the first day but on the second when we came back to rv from baseball games the lights were dim on the inside of mh. The AC would not work, refrig quit as well. If I turn the ignition key to on everything gets bright and works but as soon as I turn it back to off, they all go off again although the lights will be dim. It appears that it puts a little charge in the house batteries. If I drive I guess it charges the house batteries and it works again for a little while till they go dead.

What would cause the converter to not be working when on shore power? Shouldn't it work off of that and not the house batteries when on shore power? Any ideas would be appreciated. We are leaving Saturday for a week in Florida.

Thanks!
Scott

we just took our motorhome to the shop for this same problem, we thought it was the converter, but it had a breaker near the distribution panel where the converter is located and all they did was reset it....we are going to pick it up monday...service said it does not look like the typical breaker, but more like a button... and fairly hard to see in our mh which is a national.
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:29 AM   #21
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I have the same inverter. This weekend the campground we were in had gfis on all outlets. The ivverter kept tripping the gfis. A call to Freedom's tech line, told me the unit is designed with a small leak.He said the leak is not supposed to trip a GF but will trip a GFI. Didn't know there was a difference.Turning off the breaker to the inverter and we would not trip .Turn it on and it would trip.Any ideas?
Bob
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faye View Post
we just took our motorhome to the shop for this same problem, we thought it was the converter, but it had a breaker near the distribution panel where the converter is located and all they did was reset it....we are going to pick it up monday...service said it does not look like the typical breaker, but more like a button... and fairly hard to see in our mh which is a national.
Also the inverter itself has several white round buttons that are really breakers. Make sure each is in by pushing on them, they should be flush, not sticking out about 1/8".

If they don't stay in there is a problem with the wiring or inverter that caused them to trip. The Heart has a breaker for bypass and a separate breaker for inverter labeled invert/charge (see p5 of this manual), so the one for the inverter could be tripped and you'll still get power when shore power or generator is on.

Note if your inverter is black you'll find the same breakers, just in a different place.

If this is not the problem then there is a problem with your inverter, however, several people service these inverters, hopefully you can find one near you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bldrbob
I have the same inverter. This weekend the campground we were in had gfis on all outlets. The ivverter kept tripping the gfis. A call to Freedom's tech line, told me the unit is designed with a small leak.He said the leak is not supposed to trip a GF but will trip a GFI. Didn't know there was a difference.Turning off the breaker to the inverter and we would not trip .Turn it on and it would trip.Any ideas?
Bob
I had a Freedom 25 for several years and never had a problem with campground GFI's tripping. Some GFI's are more sensitive than others, with our new inverter (a Trace SW2512) we tripped a GFI in the campground (we ended up replacing it with a regular breaker for the two weeks we stayed on the site) but never trip the GFI's at home. Were you able to try GFI's at different sites?

Stewart
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:53 PM   #23
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The first site had 20 30 and 50 amp breakers. All three tripped.The second site had two 20 amp recepticals.Both tripped untill I disconnected the inverter.
BOB
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:46 AM   #24
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I have downloaded the Freedom 20D manual you referred to. My 20D is quite different. It is the black one and the control panel is totally different also. I find the manual of little help.
My problem isn't tripping the GFI's. It is.... loosing power to all coach 120 V outlets as soon as I disconnect from AC source.
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bldrbob View Post
The first site had 20 30 and 50 amp breakers. All three tripped.The second site had two 20 amp recepticals.Both tripped untill I disconnected the inverter.
BOB
Bob, I've never seen a 50A breaker that is GFI, so unfortunately I think your inverter is bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grampakoot
I have downloaded the Freedom 20D manual you referred to. My 20D is quite different. It is the black one and the control panel is totally different also. I find the manual of little help.
My problem isn't tripping the GFI's. It is.... loosing power to all coach 120 V outlets as soon as I disconnect from AC source.
Does it look like this one: http://www.worldclassconsultants.com...bid=55&mid=389

If so I believe I have a manual at home I can upload tonight if you want it.

The losing power as soon as you disconnect the AC source can be caused by a bad transfer relay in the inverter as well as the inverter breaker being open. What does your control panel indicate when this is happening?

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Old 09-21-2010, 11:54 AM   #26
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Leakage current maybee...

Some inverters are switch mode power supplies like what is in most electronics, more output with fewer parts and less power waste, the problem with them is leakage current.

Due to the nature that they work currents are induced in the chassis and other parts thus leaking.

many of the commercial versions of these have warnings indicating they must be grounded to the safety ground system to prevent injury, touching one not grounded gets you a surprise.

IF your inverter(in charge mode) has a high enough leakage current then this may be creating a problem, the campground may have GFI protected pedestals to reduce the risk of liability and the current coming back on the safety ground is tripping them.

So how to test?

Before proceeding understand that there may be energy present on the chassis of your MH, plug in a light or other device that you can see from outside before plugging in the power, if someone needs to activate switches then have them enter before you plug it in, do NOT touch the MH while plugged into a non-GFI outlet until the problem is resolved, the GFI is doing its job!

You can plug your MH into a standard outlet that is NOT GFI, only turn on the inverter and nothing else to reduce the load on the outlet, if all is ok then plug into GFI, if it trips then you know there is current on the safety ground.

Next locate the inverter and isolate the safety ground, if it plugs in then use an extension cord and repeat the above test with only the inverter plugged in via the cord, if this passes then there may be a wiring issue in the MH, if fails then the inverter is bad.

If it does NOT plug in then remove just the safety ground connection, heed the warning above and retest.

You may also want to disconnect the output leads as well, isolate all other devices before you toss the inverter.

If the inverter is recent then collect the model/serial data and work directly with the manufacturer, give them the results of the testing and ask for their sugestions, it could be as simple as a wiring modification or possible replacement of the unit, even though it is old you may get some consideration from the manufacturer, does not hurt to try.

The unit may have a certial amount of leakage current as normal, and the amount may have been within the requirements when it was built, but the requirements may have changed over time, the newer GFI may be more sensitive to leakage currents and replacement/upgrade may be in order if the existing one cannot be made to work via a simple work-around/repair/upgrade.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:39 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2go View Post
Bob, I've never seen a 50A breaker that is GFI, so unfortunately I think your inverter is bad.



Does it look like this one: http://www.worldclassconsultants.com...bid=55&mid=389

If so I believe I have a manual at home I can upload tonight if you want it.

The losing power as soon as you disconnect the AC source can be caused by a bad transfer relay in the inverter as well as the inverter breaker being open. What does your control panel indicate when this is happening?

Stewart
When plugged in to AC power the control panel indicates that both DC and AC are on. As soon as I unplug from AC power only DC shows. It also indicates what volts I have.
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:44 PM   #28
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From experience, also with a 20FD; make sure any and all GFCI outlets (look in bathroom) are not tripped. If one is, it likely is hooked to all other 110V outlets and they all are actcually controlled by the one GFCI outlet. I resolved this issue through a lot of trial and error, but mostly by a suggestion from another RVer at a recent FMCA rally in Louisiana.
Good Luck
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