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Old 08-22-2016, 04:23 PM   #29
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I purchased a set of Toyos this summer for $2200 installed and sold my old, badly cracked Michelins for $600. Can't be happier with the new tires. I had a set on my other class A and had no problems with them.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:42 PM   #30
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I changed Michelins to Toyo in 2014 and had good luck so far no issues after a lot of research I am a happy camper I had these installed on my 1998 Winniebago chieftain and saved about $800 from the Michelins.
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Old 08-24-2016, 03:22 AM   #31
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I run Toyo tires on all of my vehicles with the exception of my V12 Jaguar. They don't make a W rated high speed tire. I've never had an issue with Toyo tires on my motorhome, or my Jeep Toad. They are reasonably priced and give a great ride. 80 psi all the way around on the MH and 36 psi all the way around on the Wrangler Toad. JMHO
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Old 08-24-2016, 04:26 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
Regardless of the tire you end up with, make sure your LS understand that you want all tires to be under 6 months of age per the DOT date of manufacturing on the tire. (DO NOT BUY their standard line, that 'tires don't age in the warehouse' and or 'your warranty is based upon in service date'. RV tires are typically replaced by age, not wearing out. And if you go to see the RV for some reason, a prospective buyer will be looking at the date stamped on the tire, and will careless about the in service date.)
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Smitty,
What do you mean by DO NOT BUY their standard line, that 'tires don't age in the warehouse'.

I understand tires start aging as soon as their put on the shelf, but what is their standard line vs what we need for the MH. Can you elaborate a little more on this please?
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Old 08-24-2016, 04:45 AM   #33
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Can you elaborate on the stems

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayChez1 View Post
There is no comparison. Toyo tires are superior to Michelins. Have had both and I feel so much more secure with the M-154 Toyo's. Good ride, wear even across the tread. I balance my tires with Equal bags and I also have the filtered valve stems installed.
What are filtered valve stems and why do you have them? On the back inside tires too since they are longer? And, do you run a TPMS on them as well like this?
TIRE PRESSURE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (TPMS)

BTW...I'm really glad you put your type of coach in your signature so I can put your comments in context. A comment without that info IMO is pretty much useless. They may have a 26' coach as far as I know with very little weight.

thx
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:11 AM   #34
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Concerning air pressure

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Originally Posted by AKOne View Post
Cannot say which tire band is superior, but what I can say is my Toyos are performing very well. I follow close the OEM inflation recommendations.
We are getting ready to buy a new MH and this is one subject that is SO important to me but seems to have so many variables that I want to make sure I understand all this.

When OEM air pressure is recommended, they recommend it based on the tires that came on the MH right? Now, if later on we go and change the brand of tires to a different brand, do we still use the OEM recommended pressure?

In addition to that, when OEM pressure is recommended, is that based on GCWR? I just want to know with confidence that when our MH is loaded with fuel, 1/2 tank or full tank of water, full butane, food, clothes, humans etc., then go weight the rig, that my tires are pressured correctly and I have the proper load rated tires on it.

I have read in several places (including NTSB) that 60% of all types of RV's running on the road today are over loaded concerning weight. Couple that with not paying attention to air pressure, bolting down the Hwy maxing out the speed limit among other conditions is a recipe for disaster. So I personally plan on weighing my rig often, not going over GCWR, doing my best to distribute weight over the chassis as best I can & have TPMS like this.
TIRE PRESSURE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (TPMS)

Getting good tires and saving some money is good, but I am NOT looking to save a few hundred dollars and then have something like this happen because I didn't pay attention to all the other details:
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:38 AM   #35
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different air pressure from front to rear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
Hi Gary - I understood your post completely. And understand that you're not in favor of paying the price for Michelin, as you find other tires meet your needs well at a nicer price point!

I did want to share some real world differences on the difference in noise level, and comfort, from some tires we've had on our coach.

> When we bought the coach used, they still had the CC OEM Toyo Tires. (Do not recall the tire model number.) Due to the age of the tire, I negotiated a credit from the buyer for 8 new tires of my choice. Disclaimer here: I never checked the tire PSI on the Toyo's when I took delivery. Bought the coach out of Holland Motor Homes in then San Diego, since moved to San Marcos. They did the PDT for delivery, and the tires PSI were checked as being set. I suspect they set these to the placards PSI setting, which is much higher then normally run with. That being said, the couple hundred miles I drove on the Toyo's, I found the ride jarring over expansion joints and bad roadways. Noise level was high too. And the front wandered in the lane. (But again, I do not consider that a fair assessment of this set of Toyo's, as they were old, and I believe the PSI was much higher then required.)

>Installed the Michelin XZE*'s all around. These tires were the heaviest tires I had looked into, that extra weight came from extra meat on the sidewalls for scrubbing. The PSI was set per the actual four corner weight of the coach, plus the added contingency I run with on top of that. The fronts were set to 105 PSI. The ride was noticeably quieter, tracked well, and while I still felt expansion joints and bad roadways, it was an improvement over the Toyo's, yep again - the Older Toyo's - that were on the coach.

>Damaged two tires about two years ago now due to a California pot hole. Michelin tire shortage, which then rippled over to shortages of other brands of tires to. And at 12R 22.5, not as large a choice of models to choose from anyway. I did due the FMCA purchase program, and was able to find 2 BF Goodrich ST230's (Made by Michelin.) Being the newest tires, the other 6 were 5 years old. I had the ST230's installed on the steers. The tires were not quite as loud as the XZE*'s, and set for the proper load weight of my front end, I ran these at 105 PSI too. Expansion joints and bad roads ride transfer into the front end of the coach, was again reduced and or an improvement over the XZE*'s.

>Earlier this year, I replaced the final 6 tires. Changed the size to 295/80 22.5, as they had more tire models to choose from, and minimal difference to the speedometer. I went with the Michelin XZA2 Energy tires. Again on the FMCA program. Tire pressure was also set to the same 105 PSI, on the steers. (I moved the still young ST230's 12r 22.5 to the Tag, after coordinating with Country Coach that it was ok to have the Tag be a different size. The noise level dropped down again, over the ST230's. The ride comfort over expansion joints and rough roads, also dropped again.

So what? Well, the sidewalls 'stiff ness' or 'hunkiness' differences between for sure the Michelin XZE*'s, BF Goodrich ST230's and finally the Michelin XZA2's - made a noticeable difference, on the steers, on ride comfort and tire noise level.

Different coaches may have different results, due to different chassis and running weights.

My purpose not his thread, was to share that perception of the experience of these three tires. Not the Toyo's, as it would not be a fair comparison.

On price? With the FMCA discount, the difference in cost is not as great for the Michelin's. You probably have seen in this and other threads, that I for sure did consider other tires too. I'm not hung up on just driving on Michelin tires. I did use the Rolling Comparison site to compare the tires, and that was one of the primary reasons I went with the XZA2's, as they had the least rolling resistance I could find for my two tire sizes (12R or 295/80), and still under 6 months of DOT Born On Date age, a criteria for me at the time of purchase.

I do feel that if I could have found Hankook's with younger dates then were available, that I would have put those on the Drive and Tag, and still bought the Michelin XZA2's for the steer. I think that would have been a reasonable and cost effective approach for these 8 shoes that go on my coach!

Best to you and all, be safe, have fun,
Smitty
Smitty,
So no matter what tires you have, once you go and have your MH weighed, how do you calculate what the front & rear pressures should be? AND, sometimes you can't find a 4 corner scale, so can you calculate the same thing if weighed on a front/rear scale and how do you do that?
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Old 08-24-2016, 02:42 PM   #36
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marjoa,

On 'tires not aging in the warehouse' line. Well, these guys have inventory, and the want to follow the FIFO rule of inventory management (First in First Out). So unless you stipulate as part of the agreement to purchase, that they will be whatever you acceptable age is, good chance they will put the oldest tires in their warehouse on. Now, for the trucking industry, really not much of a concern, as they wear out by miles, not age, 80-100K+ is very common for an Over The Road Trucker. Where us RV owners, usually replace tires by age, not miles. And standard line? Well I've heard it probably from three, maybe four different tire dealers in just the last two years. I was preached at for at least 15 minutes by a LS Manager in Oregon. About how ignorant the RV'ing community was. And just how much more he as a tire professional, and gee a manager too, knew about tires... (Long story, that I've bored people on this board about before. So I won't go back into it here again. Cost me money, was called a liar by this manager, and for that reason will never do business with LS at any location again.) What this 'gentlemen tire dealer manager' was missing, and that I tried to politely explain to him. IS THAT AGE OF NEW TIRES DO MATTER TO THE RV'ing COMMUNITY. AND THAT A PAYING CUSTOMER, WE HAVE A RIGHT TO ASK FOR YOUNGER TIRES AS PART OF OUR TERMS OF PURCHASE. Now, if they don't have young tires. And or don't care go get young tires, great - I as a customer can keep on shopping...

And I do try to see it from their view point to. They have a bunch of tires in inventory. And hate having to go out and get more of the same brand/model tire, just to meet an age criteria of a customer...

========

Check into the Escapees website, they have the tire scale program at a few locations, and also take them to different rallies too. Called Smart Weight. And they will usually also help you look up the weights on the appropriate tire manufacturer, and help you pick the appropriate PSI.

That being said. Going to a conventional scale the you drive over, do these steps:

1) Pull on the scale, get front axle weight only

2) Pull on the scale the full way, get full coach weight

3) Pull the front tires of the scale, get the rear axle weight

4) If a tag coach, pull off the scale with the drive axle, and get the tag weight

5) Circle back around, and then straddle the scale, with one side of the coach on the scale, and the other off. And repeat the above.

Then do the math, subtracting the single side weight, from the full axle weight. Choose the highest weight for the axle, and use that when consulting the tire manufactures chart. Me personally, if I'm with say 10-20% of the upper range of the chart for my actual heavies wheel for the axle, I bump up to the charts next line of weight. (Say my actual weight should have been 95 PSI, and the next line above it is 100 PSI, I would round up to that 100 PSI setting.) I also personally add a contingency 10% weight on top of the manufactures chart setting. This allows for coach weight creep while traveling, and if on a longer trip, you can lose a few PSI while still remaining safely above your minimum level. So for example, if I should be running 95 PSI on my steers, I add 9.5 PSI to that, for 104.5, and then just for ease of remembering, I round up to in this case 105 PSI.

Four corner will be better, but this will for sure get you a good setting to work with too.

If for some reason you can only get full axle weights. Look to see if your documentations includes a 'leaving the factory' weight. This will give you some indication of the variabilities between Left to Right coach weights. Some coaches are pretty well balanced, and others are not. And of course, usually at the factory the water has very little in it. And the same with fuel and LP and grey and black tanks, so not a for sure thing. But, if you see that the left rear is say 10% heavier then the right rear. Then divide the full rear axle weight, and add 10% on to that weight. Use that to access the tire charts.

And if you have no indications on left to right variability of weight, assume that their is some. Take that full axle weight, and add some pounds to it to access the tire manufacture chart. Say you have a 14K pound rated front axle. So that would be 7.5K per side, in a perfect balance. Actual weight hopefully will come in at under that 14K, let's say 12.5K lbs for discussion purposes. That would give you 6.25K lbs per side. Round that up to say 7K lbs as a contingency and to account for one side being possibly heavier then the other. Use that 7K lbs when you access the tire manufacture chart.

Sorry this is long winded. Do some more searches here on the board, as many have explained this much better before!

Best to you, and all.

And again, I want to restate that I'm very happy that many of you are so happy with Toyo. For sure a respected tire!
Smitty
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:23 PM   #37
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Excellent question! I think along the same lines, the RV manufacturers are going to save every penny they can on any components . They will weigh quality and reputation, against their cost and make a decision based on that. So what are the tire brands used by the mfg?

I can speak for Freightliner chassis the tire is decided on by contract between the tire company and Freightliner. The coach builder has no say.
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:02 AM   #38
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My Freightliner chassis come with Michelins XRV 255x80 22.5 when new. I never had a blow out with them, but it seemed like others were having all kinds of blow outs. Mine cracked real bad at exactly five years. Michelin inspected the tires in Albuquerque, N. Mex. and they said the cracks were not long or deep enough to warranty the tires. So I drove all the way to Las Vegas, Nev. and the constant worrying that a tire might blow was getting to me, so I had all six tires changed out with Toyo's.

Mine set is a lot better. I do not worry about tires blowing up. Toyo tires have been great for me.
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