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Old 09-23-2013, 08:26 PM   #43
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Battery salesman u think ?
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:31 PM   #44
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TeJay, I know that you're calling a battery a B+, but where did that come from? The mineral oil I bought from Safeway came in a 16 oz bottle. Why not 3 oz per cell? Who's idea was it to use 4 oz? If the journey to my destination is bumpy and MO gets on the top of the plates, will it hurt the batteries?
I think if there was a accurate way to determine how much was needed to float 1/16" thick in the area of the cell it might be less but I'm sure it's just a guess but seems to be a good amount. A couple of my batteries are hard to access but when they come out next I'm going to add the oil to all 8 of mine. ( 2 motorhomes) The B+ is abbreviating Battery
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:43 PM   #45
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I'm familiar with using B+ on a schematic or on a circuit board, but have never thought of using it to designate an actual battery. I mean, you can't walk into a store and say: "Give me a 12v B+."
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:31 PM   #46
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Anyone play with de-sulfating B+'s?

When I was a lot younger, my DAD used to put MO in boat batteries (4 X 8D) per
boat X 4 boats (lots of boats). Gel & AGM batteries were not invented and dealing with hydrogen gas in a hold tended to muck up more things than not. All that's needed is enough to cover the surface of the cell and no more. Worrying about getting plates contaminated is a non issue (MO floats). As for dealing with warranty issues; vacuum the MO out before you deal with any issues.
If you have corrosion issues dig up some spray on silicon and coat the inside of the compartment (it works better than LPS 3 & is easier to deal with).
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:15 PM   #47
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If you use MO on your B+ can you still use a HD (Hydrometer)? Or will the MO coat the insides of the HD and F(Foul) things up on the reading?
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:22 PM   #48
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I'm familiar with using B+ on a schematic or on a circuit board, but have never thought of using it to designate an actual battery. I mean, you can't walk into a store and say: "Give me a 12v B+."
Makes sense to me too !
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:45 PM   #49
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Dunner,
I guess it came from my Air force training days and it's easier to type B+ than to spell the word battery all the time. I used the designation all during my teaching career. The students had to learn the schematic symbols because that's what they would see if they needed to read a schematic.

pocketchange,
I would usually slow (1-2 amps for about 2-3 days) charge a B+ to de-sulfate it. Sometimes it would eventually take a charge and sometimes it wouldn't. Because this is a molecular event (re-charging a B+) best results are achieved when recharging very slowly.

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Old 09-23-2013, 10:53 PM   #50
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Gotcha, TeJay.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:27 PM   #51
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Anyone play with de-sulfating B+'s?
I use a BatteryMinder® Model 12248 on my houses batteries and a Model 12112 on my chassis battery. I have a couple umbilical cords running from my garage to my MH. When I went to get tires, the tech at the tire store asked what the 12' cord was that I was dragging.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:35 AM   #52
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Correct, slow charging is excellent but not what I was thinking of.

If you were lucky enough to take chemistry you would more likely understand what I'm referring to. I've had starting batteries in place for long periods of time 8+years) with using a slurry of magnesium sulfate and insuring they are kept floating. This process can bring back a B+ that is not shorted or internally damaged (you can't fix broke). Having a swollen or open post connection ends the opportunity to bring one back to life.
There are a couple of methods to bring back the dead but I've only used the one. This involves a saturated solution of magnesium sulfate and a slow charge. My experience tells me that letting one sit without attention is the worst thing you can do to a B+.
Also keep in mind, if you are short on time to follow through with the exercise, it's much easier to just get the new B+ (USAF too).
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:12 AM   #53
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pocketchange,
Thanks for the comments Brother !! Those were some of the best times in my early life.

TeJay
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:20 AM   #54
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I don't understand all of the confusion about the mineral oil.

First, the mineral oil is only to stop the evaporation of the water from the electrolyte.

As the water evaporates, also as the battery gasses during charging and discharging, a caustic and explosive atmosphere is created around the battery, thus the need for ventilation of the battery compartment and for the frequent cleaning of the cable connections.

It is not necessary nor advisable to remove any electrolyte. The battery is designed to work with the amount it has when correctly watered. Adding enough mineral oil to cover the electrolyte is all that is necessary for the desired control of the corrosive effects of the normal battery cycling. It is like putting plastic wrap on a bowl of food. It preserves without interacting.

When it comes time to check the electrolytes quality all that needs to be done is to feed the lift tube into the cell as you squeeze the ball. When at the plates draw enough fluid to take your reading. When done just squirt it back into the cell. It will not harm the sealing effect of the oil.

I hope this explanation simplifies this topic.

I think one of the benefits to be seen is that the specific gravity will remain constant because of the limited loss of water.

Happy trails and trials to all,
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:05 AM   #55
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I live off grid and have 16 L-16 batteries costing well above $3500. My solar advisor said not to use mineral oil or any other additive until after the warranty period was passed. (In fact he said he'd never add mineral oil to any battery but that would start a heated discussion since so many members have had good success with the mineral oil) So I'd think if you have batteries still under warranty you might want to hold off on adding mineral oil or other "additive" to avoid any warranty problem. Just a thought.
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Battery salesman u think ?


I think not - he was thinking about the warranty: Warranty is 7 years ( First 24 months replacement, next 60 months prorated )
I misstated the cost of these batteries: 16 @ $350 is $5600 and to me that's a big chuck of $ and not worth taking a chance on voiding the warranty.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:47 AM   #56
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I don't understand all of the confusion about the mineral oil.

First, the mineral oil is only to stop the evaporation of the water from the electrolyte.

As the water evaporates, also as the battery gasses during charging and discharging, a caustic and explosive atmosphere is created around the battery, thus the need for ventilation of the battery compartment and for the frequent cleaning of the cable connections.

It is not necessary nor advisable to remove any electrolyte. The battery is designed to work with the amount it has when correctly watered. Adding enough mineral oil to cover the electrolyte is all that is necessary for the desired control of the corrosive effects of the normal battery cycling. It is like putting plastic wrap on a bowl of food. It preserves without interacting.

When it comes time to check the electrolytes quality all that needs to be done is to feed the lift tube into the cell as you squeeze the ball. When at the plates draw enough fluid to take your reading. When done just squirt it back into the cell. It will not harm the sealing effect of the oil.

I hope this explanation simplifies this topic.

I think one of the benefits to be seen is that the specific gravity will remain constant because of the limited loss of water.

Happy trails and trials to all,
Rick

I agree with what you are saying. MO is not going to stop the corrosive gasses, but will limit the evaporation of liquid. However, the specific gravity will always be changing with or without the addition of MO. The SG is a function of the state of charge, not loss or level of water. Is that correct? I wish that my batteries always had a high SG, then I wouldn't have to charge them.

I do not use MO as I check the batteries monthly anyway just to see what's going on in the battery compartment. I have easy access to the batteries, so it's not a problem for me, however, those with restricted access, it may make sense.
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