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Old 06-28-2013, 06:20 PM   #57
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As long as Amanda is complying with the laws of her state she is totally legal and within her rights as a citizen. She is following the same path that those of us who itemize do when we deduct the sales tax or personal property tax we pay on our federal tax returns. The same goes for the interest we may pay on our "second home" which is our motorhome. It is what the law allows. No one should pay or should feel obligated to pay more than they owe for anything and that does include taxes.
Thank you taxman. That is a good analogy.

How many of those of you who are accusing us of not paying our fair share of taxes pay more taxes than they should out of the goodness of their heart?

...or are saying to themselves, "there are legal ways to lower my tax bill but I refuse to take advantage of them because I want to pay my state and my country the absolute most I can afford as I want to be paying my fair share." ...???

I bet not many.

All we are doing is taking advantage of an alternative offered to us to lower our taxes. If what we are doing is illegal, we would not do it.

Our conscience is not bothering us by what we are doing. We pay plenty of taxes to our state by other means. And again, if we were physically in our state more than we are gone from it, we would register our vehicles in our home state.

We have NO problem paying "our fair share" of taxes. However, if we can legally cut down on the taxes we pay, why shouldn't we take advantage of that? I still contend that most of you find ways to cut your taxes. People that want and desire to pay the most they possibly can to their state government have to be in the minority I would imagine. To their church, sure, but to their state government? I still say, no way.
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:40 PM   #58
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The States need there tax money to operate. The more tax dodgers, tax cheats that do that sort of thing makes us honest guys pay more. If you cant afford to license your moho, buy a tent
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Originally Posted by flaggship1 View Post
Too bad we can't register and license them in Switzerland or the Caymans - but that sort of thing is reserved for the jet set - not we merry road travelers. Doesn't seem right to me.
If you look at the stituation I think your opinions might change. Do you know of anyone, or do you personally, intentionally pay more in taxes than you owe? I know of no one who makes donations to their state government becuase of the tough times the state is having.

Governments, whether it be the state, federal, or local, are not charitable organizations. There is no obligation to pay more than one owes. All Amanda is doing is what the law allows. I really do not understand the criticism of someone for complying with the law. If there was a violation of the laws of her state then she would be subject to the taxes and penalties associated with those violations.

How many of the folks on this forum give their Social Security checks back to the government because the Social Security fund is in trouble? For some reason I would bet that not one person does that. Why? Because you are entitled to that payment under the law. Amanda is entitled to not have to pay taxes under the laws of her state. Same stituation folks.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:20 PM   #59
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Wnytaxman - I think you misunderstood me - what doesn't seem right to me is that the opportunities for us little fish are so limited. If you have a gazilkion bucks the advantage is yours. For us with less - we can barely find a way to shelter a dime. If you can make the Mt LLC work for you - you should in my opinion. This is a small advantage. I don't feel quite the same way about the offshore money as that game is fixed - bought and paid for so to speak. Some legal things should not be and some illegal things should be. JMHO. I am for stamping money out of politics. Again - JMHO and I don't want to throw this off track.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:32 PM   #60
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Interesting, you're advocating breaking the law on an open forum?
Governments at all levels have chosen to behave in a lawless manner.

Why should we continue to show any respect for the law?
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:53 PM   #61
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Wnytaxman - I think you misunderstood me - what doesn't seem right to me is that the opportunities for us little fish are so limited. If you have a gazilkion bucks the advantage is yours. For us with less - we can barely find a way to shelter a dime. If you can make the Mt LLC work for you - you should in my opinion. This is a small advantage. I don't feel quite the same way about the offshore money as that game is fixed - bought and paid for so to speak. Some legal things should not be and some illegal things should be. JMHO. I am for stamping money out of politics. Again - JMHO and I don't want to throw this off track.

Steve,

The entire off shore argument that media loves to exploit is really more of a myth. Every US citizen is required to pay taxes on their worldwide income. Off shore accounts are required to be reported (in fact the form is due on Sunday for any who haven't yet filed it) as to amount, account number, and bank holding the funds.

The wealthy do have the advantage of being able to use benefits that most of us do not have access to, and I will be the first to agree with that. I think you'll find that the Montana LLC is more of a circumstances situation rather than a wealth advantage tax break. For example, in NY the requirement is that the vehicle must leave the state once every 30 days or it will be considered to be a resdient vehicle and will be taxed accordingly. If my circumstances are such that I can comply with that law, then I could use the Montana LLC. In my situation I can not comply with that requirement so I don't use the Montana LLC. I don't have time for three months of the year to go anywhere so it just won't work for me.

Ed
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:42 PM   #62
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The States need there tax money to operate. The more tax dodgers, tax cheats that do that sort of thing makes us honest guys pay more. If you cant afford to license your moho, buy a tent

I was trying hard not to respond to you, Hanko.

But I won't be able to sleep tonight. So I'll try to keep it civil and will try to choose my words carefully as I want the response to be as mild as possible and still get my point across.

You are accusing us of being cheats and being dishonest. I've tried to explain our reasoning as to why we are not breaking the law, not being dishonest in any way, and not cheating our state out of money. I'm not even sure if you read what I've posted not only in this thread but in others previous to this one because even though I've explained it as succinctly as possible, you still choose to infer that we are cheats and dishonest people.

All I can do is to reiterate what I've said so far and then I'm just going to have to shut up as this is how these Montana LLC threads always end up either as flame wars or result in just beating a dead horse as folks like me have to keep repeating and repeating the same thing over and over again. Those of you who consider it cheating, illegal, and dishonest are not actually reading what I've posted as I can't understand how you still contend those things if you had.

First, I'm NOT advocating that all RVers should run out and register their motorhomes in Montana LLCs. In fact, I've said just the opposite. Most should NOT. And the reason why they should not as most RVers will have a difficult time keeping within the laws of their state. It's not for everybody and in fact, it's for a relatively few if being done within the law.

The few would be those who can leave their state of residence on a frequent basis. If you can't do that, it is NOT advisable to register your motorhome in a Monatana LLC. One has to be able to abide by the rules of their state concerning what triggers vehicle registration in that state. In some states, that's almost impossible.

For us personally:

*we are not physically in our state the majority of the time
*we pay a lot of taxes to our state other than those associated with vehicle registration
*we try to abide by all the laws of our state and keep good records
*we will gladly register our vehicles in our home state if it comes to the point where we are physically in our state more than we are not or if we can no longer abide by the rules and laws of the state on a consistent basis.
*we have received and paid for a lot of legal advice pertaining to this by lawyers in our state.
*we have also received legal advice by a California attorney regarding the rumor where any Montana LLC must pay IFTA taxes regardless if they are in business (or not) or what state the vehicles is registered. From the legal advice we have received, it is false.
*we register our vehicles in a Montana LLC with a clear conscience as we know there is nothing dishonest or illegal about what we are doing. We do not consider ourselves cheats.

Again, we are NOT advocating that everybody do this. We are only saying it can legally be done. You have to do your homework as well as fit in to a certain niche of RVer in order to do it legally.

Are there RVers out there who are breaking the law by doing this? I have to believe there are. Some do it innocently by not understanding the rules/laws of their state. Sure, there are probably others who are purposely and knowingly doing it even though they realize that they are not following the law but hoping they won't get caught.

But not EVERYBODY who is doing it is a cheat, being dishonest, or breaking the law.

I'll shut up now ...until the next thread ...or the next person who responds and call me dishonest and a cheat.

~mandy
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:29 PM   #63
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Wow.....As society slowly sinks deeper and deeper into a moral hole, people start defending why they cheat. One post here says it's okay because everyone is crooked. Another says I have property all over the state, (what a terrible position to be in) so I must be paying too much in tax, so I'll just cheat them out of a little to get even.

Yes....no one should pay more than they owe and people don't, but when you start hiding things and then defend your theft by saying I pay too much anyhow, you become part of what is wrong with this country.

Here's what's being missed. A majority of people on this forum are older and trying to enjoy the RV life and retirement. With age comes medical problems or the chance of more medical issues. These taxes that you're cheating the state out of, pay for fire, police and ambulance services. Yes the money goes other places too, but at some point when the tax dollars run thin, everything gets cut.

I live in California and pay through the nose for everything. I wouldn't mind living elsewhere at a cheaper rate, but we've chose to stay because our children and grandchildren are here. I'll continue to pay my taxes.

I hope karma doesn't get the cheaters who are shorting the state of funds to pay for fire, police and paramedic services. Or maybe I do! Hopefully the day you call for that paramedic for your spouse that they aren't a few minutes longer in responding because of tax cuts!
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:47 PM   #64
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OK, Folks... Let's keep the discussion ON TOPIC and refrain from personal attacks. Thanks.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:42 PM   #65
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*sigh* Don, I didn't say nor even imply that because we have property in the state that we pay too much as it is so that gives us the right to cheat them out of more taxes. Jeez! Show me where I said that.

That's just using your own words to describe what you think I'm saying.

The gist of our stance is that we do not spend the majority of time in our home state. If we did, we'd register our vehicles there.

Please stop putting your own words in my mouth.

Furthermore, we pay a lot in property taxes to our state and that is what funds the services in the area, such as police, fire department, roads, libraries, etc.

We pay hefty property taxes in Washington state as well so we are contributing to their funding for the police, fire, libraries, etc. When we are there, we pay huge sales taxes to the state of Washington when we buy things. We also do that to a lesser extent in Idaho and Utah.

Considering all the property, sales taxes, and fuel taxes we pay to various states we stay in on top of the states we visit, California included, I'd be willing to bet that we could be paying as much or more than you or any other person that stays in their home state the majority of the time.

It's just that we don't stay in our so-called home state the majority of the time.

Call us a thief if you'd like but as I've stated on this thread more times that I care to keep repeating, we do this with a clear conscience and do not consider it theft, cheating, nor illegal.

~mandy





eta: ...and what about the full-timers who decide to take up South Dakota residency but stay in multiple states? Some are never in South Dakota other than to renew their drivers licenses but yet they stay the majority of the time in other states. Some even spend a lot of time in California. We know three couples that are South Dakota full-timers and spend the winter in the Palm Springs area. Are they contributing their fair share to the services they use and take advantage of in California? A little bit of rent and maybe some sales taxes. Heck, if they're staying the winter in California, shouldn't they be paying more for their fair share?

If it will make you refrain from calling as cheats and dishonest people, I guess we can live exactly as we are doing now but go and become residents of South Dakota instead. It would absolutely make no difference to us to be South Dakota residents.

But we had our reasons for remaining residents of our home state so that's the reason we decided to keep it as our home state. If we ever cease to be on the road full-time and spend the majority of the time in our home state, we will then register our vehicles there.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:02 AM   #66
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This issue is usually pretty easy to resolve. No matter where you travel or how long you're out of state (except full timers), the state where your coach is GARAGED (a California term) when you're home is the state that you're expected to pay taxes in. Just like an attorney, you can pretty much justify anything you do or say if you spew out enough rhetoric.

This topic always draws opinions and I usually stay away, but it gets old when half the country is not paying taxes and the other half is getting government aid. This is not a political statement.....just a fact of life.
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