More buying/selling questions from a newbie

[jzlarson]

Hi again--my husband and I are planning our first RV purchase--we have done a lot of research, rented, more research, etc. so we are ready to begin looking in earnest at used motorhomes. We are looking for a 30-34 (ish) length older model--e.g. 2005-2008 (ish)--top of our budget is $45,000, but would much rather go lower so we have money to spend on whatever tweaks we need to make, storage, etc. We understand that for higher quality we may need to go "older" rather than newer. We are also assuming we will need a gas coach for this price point. We also understand that to get what we want we may have to re-work the budget to some degree even if it means waiting a little longer to purchase.

We are 2-3 years away from retirement and are looking for a "starter" MH to use for weekends, week-long trips now and then, etc. with the idea that when we have done this for a couple of years and get closer to retirement, we may "trade up" at some point. It will primarily be the 2 of us with our two big dogs (lab mixes).

Yesterday we looked at a beautiful MH--a National Sea Breeze (2006) 34'11" listed at $39,900 by a private seller that seems like an incredible deal but we have not yet seen (in person) ANY other coach that age, size, etc. so while in some ways we want to jump right on this deal it feels really premature in our process! We have primarily been to dealerships and have only really seen and driven new MHs or pre-owned that were model year 2015 and newer so we do not have any sort of comparator.

All that being said, I have several questions that all of you may be able to help with!

1. I understand you can only get financing if your planned purchase is a 2009 or newer--we have saved $$ so we are ok there, but does this mean that it is sort of a "buyers market" for the older MHs?

2. For those of you who have sold MHs that fit in this category, how long has your MH been on the market before selling? We understand we need to be ready to act on a great deal, but also wondering about how relative that is--for example, if we see one on-line that looks really good but it is in another state offered by a private seller, is it realistic to think we will have time to arrange travel to go see it, etc. Also even with an in-state sale, we are thinking we will need an inspection which may take time to arrange, etc.

3. We also understand that any MH we buy will require some additional $$--even if there are no repairs needed, we will want to personalize it--how much do you typically set aside for post-purchase expenses within the first year of ownership?

4. Any thoughts on what insurance companies offer the best rates/coverage? Do most of you insure all of your vehicles, home, etc. with the same insuror, or do you have separate insurance for your RV?

5. Why is it that dealers who sell new MHs don't have many used ones on their lots? I'm assuming people trade in for new ones--where do all those trade-ins go? It just seems like the inventory of used MHs on lots other than consignment lots is low (at least in our area!)

6. On the consignment lot question--we would prefer to buy from a private seller, but if we end up at a consignment lot, do you have any words of wisdom regarding purchasing through that venue? I'm assuming their posted prices are higher than a private seller would be because of their overhead--in your experience do they typically negotiate?

I know this is a LOT, but you all are always so helpful and the information in these forums/threads is SO valuable--thank you so much in advance for taking the time to review and possibly answer any of these questions--also please feel free to add ANY other advice you may have!

[Itasca66]

Buy in the fall . And look at alot of them. That price range you'll get a nice one . Low miles are key. Don't focus on year focus on
How well it was maintained. date on tires is a big deal on used rigs .
Low miles on chassie more important than what color the carpet is ..

Itasca66

[twogypsies]

You mentioned consignment so you might want to look at this web site to see what is offered in your price range and what the floorplans look like. Keep it in mind as you're looking.

Consignment through PPL is like buying from a private party. PPL is basically a place to put your RV and to give it advertising. PPL 'suggested'
a price but we named our own and it was a little higher because most buyers want to negotiate. All negotiations are done through you and the private party. PPL does not get into it. Ours sold for our asking price. We put our motorhome on their lot because we didn't want to bother with selling it ourselves - lookers, appt. cancellations, advertising, etc. We had it detailed by PPL and some owners won't pay the price to do this so when looking there you may find some RVs with poor appearance. Those will not be the first ones sold as what you see in the inside is probably a good indication of how the RV is generally taken care of. We sold ours within a month. We had all the maintenance records included so the buyer (who flew in from Florida) really knew what he was getting.

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/


Regarding the one you're looking at... the National Sea Breeze... a close friend of ours has been full-timing in a 2003 (bought it new) and still has it - going on 15 years. They've traveled constantly and have taken it to Alaska and the Maritime Provinces. They take it off-pavement to public land boondocking places. They haven't had anything major to the engine/chassis - just cosmetic stuff and a new water heater. They've had very good luck with it.

Good luck to you!

[marjoa]

Originally Posted by jzlarson

Hi again--my husband and I are planning our first RV purchase--we have done a lot of research, rented, more research, etc. so we are ready to begin looking in earnest at used motorhomes. We are looking for a 30-34 (ish) length older model--e.g. 2005-2008 (ish)--top of our budget is $45,000, but would much rather go lower so we have money to spend on whatever tweaks we need to make, storage, etc. We understand that for higher quality we may need to go "older" rather than newer. We are also assuming we will need a gas coach for this price point. We also understand that to get what we want we may have to re-work the budget to some degree even if it means waiting a little longer to purchase.

We met a guy about a month ago that recently bought a 1997 40" Foretravel DP. No slides, 70K miles, 300hp but this thing was beeeeeeeaaaautiful. Looked brand new and ran spectaculiar. He paid 30K for it. A rare find indeed but they are out there. Both gas & diesel

We are 2-3 years away from retirement and are looking for a "starter" MH to use for weekends, week-long trips now and then, etc. with the idea that when we have done this for a couple of years and get closer to retirement, we may "trade up" at some point. It will primarily be the 2 of us with our two big dogs (lab mixes).

Yesterday we looked at a beautiful MH--a National Sea Breeze (2006) 34'11" listed at $39,900 by a private seller that seems like an incredible deal but we have not yet seen (in person) ANY other coach that age, size, etc. so while in some ways we want to jump right on this deal it feels really premature in our process! We have primarily been to dealerships and have only really seen and driven new MHs or pre-owned that were model year 2015 and newer so we do not have any sort of comparator.

All that being said, I have several questions that all of you may be able to help with!

1. I understand you can only get financing if your planned purchase is a 2009 or newer--we have saved $$ so we are ok there, but does this mean that it is sort of a "buyers market" for the older MHs?

2. For those of you who have sold MHs that fit in this category, how long has your MH been on the market before selling? We understand we need to be ready to act on a great deal, but also wondering about how relative that is--for example, if we see one on-line that looks really good but it is in another state offered by a private seller, is it realistic to think we will have time to arrange travel to go see it, etc. Also even with an in-state sale, we are thinking we will need an inspection which may take time to arrange, etc.
When you find the coach you're ready to act on, you put down a deposit (usually 1K or so) and the sale is contingent on how the inspection goes. You usually have to have that step completed in 3-5 days. If a deal killer comes up your deposit contract should say you get you deposit back. Have your inspection company already lined up so when you do find the coach, you call them up and they usually willmbe able to dispatch an inspector within that period. Start with "Inspection Connection"

3. We also understand that any MH we buy will require some additional $$--even if there are no repairs needed, we will want to personalize it--how much do you typically set aside for post-purchase expenses within the first year of ownership?
That question will vary from person to person. There is no typical answer. There are some that will replace only the remote control batteries and then there are others like us who have taken months to completely go through everything inside & out and made many upgrades in preparation for FT. So again there is no real answer here other than, "how much money do you have to spend and how much do you care about fixing & updating stuff & how much can you do yourself....saving you money

4. Any thoughts on what insurance companies offer the best rates/coverage? Do most of you insure all of your vehicles, home, etc. with the same insuror, or do you have separate insurance for your RV?
Go to the top of the page and type Insurance in the irv2 search box. Thousands of answers there

5. Why is it that dealers who sell new MHs don't have many used ones on their lots? I'm assuming people trade in for new ones--where do all those trade-ins go? It just seems like the inventory of used MHs on lots other than consignment lots is low (at least in our area!)
More people buy used than new. Bigger dealers have bigger inventories.

6. On the consignment lot question--we would prefer to buy from a private seller, but if we end up at a consignment lot, do you have any words of wisdom regarding purchasing through that venue? I'm assuming their posted prices are higher than a private seller would be because of their overhead--in your experience do they typically negotiate?
Sometimes a little but some dealers no. Each MH will have it's own wiggle room if any.

I know this is a LOT, but you all are always so helpful and the information in these forums/threads is SO valuable--thank you so much in advance for taking the time to review and possibly answer any of these questions--also please feel free to add ANY other advice you may have!

Good Luck.

[wildeflowers]

Originally Posted by jzlarson

1. I understand you can only get financing if your planned purchase is a 2009 or newer--we have saved $$ so we are ok there, but does this mean that it is sort of a "buyers market" for the older MHs?

Yes, it's generally a buyer's marker for older MHs, BUT if it's priced low there may be plenty of competition. This age of motor homes appeals to cash buyers like you.

2. For those of you who have sold MHs that fit in this category, how long has your MH been on the market before selling? We understand we need to be ready to act on a great deal, but also wondering about how relative that is--for example, if we see one on-line that looks really good but it is in another state offered by a private seller, is it realistic to think we will have time to arrange travel to go see it, etc. Also even with an in-state sale, we are thinking we will need an inspection which may take time to arrange, etc. I recently sold my old Class C in winter and it sold in 5 days. It was priced very fairly, I took a few thousand off for the guy, and it was in great condition,
so depending on the deal you may have plenty of time...or not. However,
don't let this make you feel pressure. Just like when you are buying a house, but even more so with RVs, there will always be another one.

3. We also understand that any MH we buy will require some additional $$--even if there are no repairs needed, we will want to personalize it--how much do you typically set aside for post-purchase expenses within the first year of ownership?

I would leave at least a few thousand for any inevitable fixes or maintenance that a 10+ year old MH might need. Check tires, they should be replaced at 5-7 years regardless of wear, find out how old batteries are, etc. RVs do require regular upkeep and fixing.

4. Any thoughts on what insurance companies offer the best rates/coverage? Do most of you insure all of your vehicles, home, etc. with the same insuror, or do you have separate insurance for your RV?
Our insurance agent couldn't even come close to Good Sam rates, so we went with them. YMMV

5. Why is it that dealers who sell new MHs don't have many used ones on their lots? I'm assuming people trade in for new ones--where do all those trade-ins go? It just seems like the inventory of used MHs on lots other than consignment lots is low (at least in our area!)
IDK, I'd rather buy from a private party anyway, and did when I purchased a used coach. I bought our new one from a dealer.

6. On the consignment lot question--we would prefer to buy from a private seller, but if we end up at a consignment lot, do you have any words of wisdom regarding purchasing through that venue? I'm assuming their posted prices are higher than a private seller would be because of their overhead--in your experience do they typically negotiate?
sorry, I have no advice, but I've heard both good and bad things about consignment.

blah because it won't let me post in the quote.

[awol50]

You are nuts on the tires. Good condition tires last at least 10 years. Only a fool throws away good tires.

[8.3Oilbuner]

Hi Jzlarson; Those are a lot of questions and very good ones. I wish I could give you more info on the Sea Breeze, but I can not since I have never owned one. Did look at them at one time, but went another direction. When first researching motorhomes, I wanted a diesel pusher because of it's robust drive train. I do most of my own work and have had diesel trucks since the 80's, so I know what I was in for. Also wanted a good, solid, well built motorhome. Not too many manufactures were building good, solid diesel pushers in the 32' to 35' range in my opinion. I did a lot of research on Monaco in the early 2000's and like what I saw. Went to look at a 34' County Coach and it was gone before I could get out of my chair to go look at it. It is very hard,IMHO, right now to find a short, quality DP. The manufactures did not build very many and most have disappeared since the RV business got better. I have followed 3 coaches that fit the parameter I have talking about and they all disappeared in less than 3 weeks. If you find something that looks good to you, start asking questions like you have here to see what other owners have to say. If you get the answers you are looking for, be ready. The good, well taken care of motorhomes do not last too long, unless they are overpriced. You are also right about financing. MY wife and I went round and round with a credit union. Buying from a dealer, one set of their rules. Buying from a private party, another set of rules that are harder to meet. Some will not finance anything that is not less than 10 years old. Dealers seem not to have good quality, well priced older coaches. It seems to me that if someone has a good, well taken care of older coach, they can sell it at a better price than a dealer can give them on a trade in. Someone always seems to know someone else who is looking for that well taken care of, reasonable priced motorhome. That is why the dealers have the newer high priced units. I had my previous Monaco DP sold 4 years before I decided to sell it. They had seen me at a campground and said, you have what I am looking for. Here is my number, call me when you want to sell it. I did look at some consignment lots and private sales before purchasing out new to us DP. Made one trip to AZ. and another to CA. Both ended in disappointment even after asking all the questions to satisfy my trip to see if it was what we wanted. Ended up with what we wanted just about 3 hours away from us. Insurance is a toss up in my opinion. I did get good coverage from the company that insures my home and cars, but they had restrictions. Could not insure anything that had an MSRP when new of over $250,000 and could not be longer that 35'. You will need to call who you have now when you find something that you are interested in. If you don't like what they say, call around. Lots of company's to do business with. Sorry this is long winded, but I hope it gives you some perspective of what I have experienced over the last 13 years of owning a motorhome. I hope you get lots of answers here from what others have experienced. Just so you know, I am not suggesting you research a diesel motorhome. There are good quality gas motorhomes also. I hope you find what you are looking for and get the answers you need to move forward. Good luck!

[Isaac-1]

6. On the consignment lot question--we would prefer to buy from a private seller, but if we end up at a consignment lot, do you have any words of wisdom regarding purchasing through that venue? I'm assuming their posted prices are higher than a private seller would be because of their overhead--in your experience do they typically negotiate?

I know this is a LOT, but you all are always so helpful and the information in these forums/threads is SO valuable--thank you so much in advance for taking the time to review and possibly answer any of these questions--also please feel free to add ANY other advice you may have![/QUOTE]

1, Financing is generally available for motorhomes up to 10-12 years of age, although is sometimes possible up to 15 years or so, usually through local banks or more often credit unions where you may have an established relationship. I financed my 2002 model for 48 months last year through a local bank that I have a substantial relationship with, but even with this relationship they would only finance up to the NADA value. (the motorhome I bought had nearly $10,000 in parts alone added since 2014, including 400 watts of solar panels, new Dometic fridge, new tires, carpet, seats, tv, ...) And yes ask/selling prices drop up substantially after about 10-12 years of age. Remember here asking and selling prices are not the same thing, when I bought my motorhome through a private party craigslist ad it had only been listed on the market for 2 days, yet I only ended up paying about 4/5th of the asking price.

2,I can't give much recent or relevant advice here, I owned a couple of class B camper van's 15-20 years ago, but sold them when they likely needed substantial work (transmissions issues and no air conditioning on one, and something causing low oil pressure on the second, plus failed dash air conditioner, both problems came up on my final trip in it, and it barely limped home), one was a private party sale and took a long time with lots of lookers, the other I sold through a local consignment / auction lot.

3, As mentioned above I paid $20,500 for my 2002 Safari Trek 28 ft class A which was overall in great shape and the previous owner had put a lot of work into it since he bought it in 2014, before unexpectedly needing to sell at the end of 2016. So far in about 7 months of ownership I have averaged spending between $700-$900 per month doing most of the work myself and I expect to spend another $2,000 before it is where I want it to be, then of course I will move into routine maintenance. This includes about $1,200 paid out to local shops for 2 issues, one involving the bleeding and checking the brakes, the other was repairing the dash air conditioner which had worked, but acted flaky (it was low on refrigerant and had 3 bad wiring connections that took time to track down). The rest included a mix of updates (adding LED headlights, LED interior lights, and a variety of $20 here and $50 there things) as well as installing new Shock absorbers, a set of Sumo Springs, and a front sway bar spreader bar (the previous owner had already done about $2,600 of suspension work and upgrades)

4, I went with state farm, mostly because I have other insurance with them, their prices were a bit higher than some others, but they do offer roadside assistance and towing for only $12 per year, so that offsets the premiums a bit.

5, Can't help you there, but I do know of one lot nearby that sells new travel trailers, plus used motorhomes that buys some of the used motorhomes at auction, the rest are consignment
p.s. if you tell us where your area is we may be able to give better advice

6, No real words of wisdom other than if you find a great deal jump on it, from time to time the nearby consignment lot mentioned above gets in some fantastic deals on consignments, but they don't last long. I saw one there a couple of weeks ago that I was temped by based on price alone (although I did not care for the layout), it was a nice looking 2003 39 ft diesel pusher for under $40,000, it sold in under a week. This is a small consignment lot, sometimes they have as many as 8-10 used motorhomes (as well as maybe 75-100 new trailers) and the pricing on the consignment motorhomes is all over the place, as it all depends on how quick the owner wants them gone. I looked at one older diesel pusher there last summer priced at I think $26,000, I asked the owner of the lot (who is a good friend of an associate of mine) why it was so cheap, and he said the owner had died and the heirs just wanted it gone.

[Isaac-1]

Originally Posted by awol50

You are nuts on the tires. Good condition tires last at least 10 years. Only a fool throws away good tires.

I was at a local body shop last week getting a quote on a rock ding, there was a 2006 class C waiting to be picked up, I asked the shop owner why it was there, he said a tire blew out and did about $4,500 worth of damage, he also said it had all original 11 year old tires...

[wildeflowers]

Originally Posted by awol50

You are nuts on the tires. Good condition tires last at least 10 years. Only a fool throws away good tires.

I am not "nuts", but thanks for the insult. One of the reasons that I don't frequent this site very much.

UV degradation is very real, and standard advice is 5-7 years for RV times. If you feel comfortable going 10, good for you. I will not risk our RV, my family or other people on the road to save $.

[FatChance]

Originally Posted by awol50

Only a fool throws away good tires.

Only a fool doesn't know their limits...

[AITG]

Go to user CP, scroll down the left side to "edit ignore list"
There's a lot of good people who share good information here. If someone turns your crank you can add them to your list and they become invisible.
Then again, that person may have good information that you'll never see.

[awol50]

And a brand new tire that is underinflated due to neglect or road damage will blow just as easily as a 10 year old tire in good physical condition.
There are hundreds of thousands of vehicles on the road every day with tires over 5-7 years old. Wise up and use common sense. Tires kept in good shape, stored well, used with a tpms will probably hold up easily for 10 years or more. Replacing on a set time basis alone is throwing away good money.

[gruelens]

Originally Posted by wildeflowers

I am not "nuts", but thanks for the insult. One of the reasons that I don't frequent this site very much.

UV degradation is very real, and standard advice is 5-7 years for RV times. If you feel comfortable going 10, good for you. I will not risk our RV, my family or other people on the road to save $.

I agree completely with wildeflowers. When buying a used RV, you do not know the history of the tires. Were the tires ever run overloaded? run under pressured? parked without sun coverings? sprayed with a petroleum based tire dressing? driven over curbs?

Looking at the outside will never tell you the whole story of the tires condition. The only way to determine whether a 10 year old tire is safe, is to remove tire from vehicle, unmount tire from rim, and look at the inside of the tire. It is difficult to find a tire tech that truly knows what to look for. All the best.