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Old 12-15-2015, 06:15 PM   #57
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Doing a little homework, on Dec 15, 2015 the USDOT allowed an axle to be overloaded by 550Lbs (previously was 400)
So what will happen if you show up at the scale 800 lbs over, on any axle, I bet you are parked and made to reduce weight until you are legal.
I still haven't heard anyone showing up at the scales yet and let us know how they made out.
BTW-I drove a commercial vehicle in BC for 7 years and stopped at every scale I encountered. Great guys, very helpful and thorough. I have seen more than one truck parked and trying to juggle weight to get back on the road. Imagine having to move a CAT rock truck (with no wheels and tires) because one axle is heavy-believe it, it happens.
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Old 12-15-2015, 07:56 PM   #58
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I agree that the state Patrol inspectors are very helpful. The WI State Patrol came to my home at my request with his six individual scales to assist me in adjusting the tag air bag pressure to get the balance between the steer, drive and tag axles where I wanted them. There was no charge. He just said it was my tax dollars at work.
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:18 PM   #59
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No argument from me as I am not a Transport Officer. Is overweight unsafe? Is that 500 on a A, C or B? Steering or Drive axle? If you were pulled over a scale what would the Transport Officer do? Would he let you go or make you move stuff around? Something is weird when you are +500 on an axle and have -9000 GVWR.

Now if you were over 500 what would the problem be with 700 or then 900 or maybe a thousand? One fellow who claimed he knew lots and did lots of fabricating posted 21,000 on a 17,000 axle. No harm, no foul. Just like being a little bit pregnant. You are either over or under the limit.

I still go back to the original premise that a MH under normal conditions should not be over 500 on an axle when full of fuel, water, seat-belted passengers, food, several changes of clothing and some discretionary things like golf clubs, etc.

On a forum such as this the experienced users should be counseling new users to stay within specifications. Encouraging new or even experienced users to exceed published guidelines is irresponsible. When do you reach the limits? Nobody really knows, certainly no one on this forum will sign any documentation saying it is OK to exceed the manufacturers specifications.
Succinctly put, and I totally agree!
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:24 PM   #60
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This is a common problem with many tag axle coaches. More recently, the 2016 Dutch Star. My point has been that if I owned one of them, until Newmar can come up with a fix, I would not be concerned about enjoying it if it were 500# over the rating on the steer axle as long as the tires were within their limits. I would not advise driving it if it were 1,000 or more over, although I'm sure the safety factor is greater than that. My coach axles are S=15,600 (actually the axle is rated at 16,000#, but the tires total 15,600#) D=22,000#, T=13,000#. My actual weight is S=14,600, D=19,800, T= 5200. It varies depending on the load, but even with another 1000# of stuff, I can keep the steer at 14,600 with my manual regulator valves on the tag. The GVW is 50,600#, but it only weighs 39,600#. To carry more weight on the tag would increase the steer weight and take weight off the drive. Neither of which I want to do. If Tiffin had used a shorter wheel base that would allow the full use of the tags capacity without overloading the steer, the basement storage would be deminished, which is not a good selling point.
Unfortunately, the manufacturers build for floor plan and maximum basement storage and too little concern about axle loading and balance. That's not going to change until we users stop buying what they give us.
The choice to drive over the legal weight limits or not is certainly up to the owner/poster . . . People have just been pointing out that exceeding limitations can have consequences, some not so good! By the way, did your forum name come as a result of your willingness to drive over the legal limits?!?
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:48 PM   #61
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The choice to drive over the legal weight limits or not is certainly up to the owner/poster . . . People have just been pointing out that exceeding limitations can have consequences, some not so good! By the way, did your forum name come as a result of your willingness to drive over the legal limits?!?
Finally someone has asked about the name Crasher. When I joined two years ago, I wondered how long it would take before someone asked. As a matter of fact, I'm the one on the road driving 62 when the speed limit is 75. It's off road where the fun begins. We spend six months in SE AZ. For years, every Monday we along with four or five other retires couples head to the mountains with our Jeeps for a day of fun and exploring new trails. We call it "Boonie Crashing". My wife and I take it quite a bit further. I've built and modified three Jeeps to get the the next levels of rock crawling. Our current Jeep will go with all except the full blown Buggies. The name Crasher just seemed to stick after our friends said we "went over to the dark side". We have since joined a group of motor home enthusiasts who also have modified Jeeps and like to find the most difficult trails with rock strewn washes and water falls to climb. As yet we haven't "crashed" or flipped over backwards, but we never know for sure. I don't take chances on the road or with our motor home, but once we leave the hard surface all bets are off.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:01 PM   #62
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Really like the "rock crawlers".
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Old 12-17-2015, 08:09 AM   #63
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Finally someone has asked about the name Crasher. When I joined two years ago, I wondered how long it would take before someone asked. As a matter of fact, I'm the one on the road driving 62 when the speed limit is 75. It's off road where the fun begins. We spend six months in SE AZ. For years, every Monday we along with four or five other retires couples head to the mountains with our Jeeps for a day of fun and exploring new trails. We call it "Boonie Crashing". My wife and I take it quite a bit further. I've built and modified three Jeeps to get the the next levels of rock crawling. Our current Jeep will go with all except the full blown Buggies. The name Crasher just seemed to stick after our friends said we "went over to the dark side". We have since joined a group of motor home enthusiasts who also have modified Jeeps and like to find the most difficult trails with rock strewn washes and water falls to climb. As yet we haven't "crashed" or flipped over backwards, but we never know for sure. I don't take chances on the road or with our motor home, but once we leave the hard surface all bets are off.

Sounds like Phun! My bet was you drove Demolition Derby for kicks. Life's too short, enjoy it while you can!
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:36 PM   #64
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Sounds like Phun! My bet was you drove Demolition Derby for kicks. Life's too short, enjoy it while you can!
Actually I was pretty conservative in my younger days. Although, My snowmobile could top 100 mph, but that doesn't count. My son has been into off-roading for 30 years and for years, I said he was crazy to spend so much on it. Then I tried it to spend some time with him. Then his could do more than mine. Then I built a better one. Then he bought a bigger motor home. Then I bought one bigger than his. Then he traded for one slightly bigger than ours. Then he bought an enclosed trailer and we bought one 2' longer than his. Then I put 40" tires on our Jeep and he put 42's on his. As you can see, there is't any competition between us. We both look forward to the next trip together to create more great memories. Don't know how long we will be able to do it, so every trip is a gift to ourselves. We are very thankful for the ability to do what we do.
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Old 12-17-2015, 08:24 PM   #65
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I have not been following this discussion closely so I may be missing something here. If I recall correctly, one poster was pointing out that their coach was at or over the weight limit driving it off the dealers lot and another was told that the coach was designed to tow a 15,000# trailer with a 1,500# tongue weight to get the front axle corrected. DA???? The old saying in the computer world is Garbage in. Garbage out. Are we not seeing this as a fact if these folks are correct in their observations?

We are at the mercy of the RV builders more than we care to think. Being a well educated RV buyer is the only weapon we have going for us. Forums, such as this, are a good source of information, true, but the web has much more info available to the buyer wanting to do the needed homework.

I will confess that I did not dig as deeply as I could have when we bought this coach. Loading it was not even a though considered because of the volume of space available in the basement and in the living quarters. I simply trusted the reputation of the manufactures of the major components to have done their jobs well. I was a bit wrong.

It didn't take long to overload the rig. We have shed some weight but we must continue to do so. We are becoming wiser campers as time goes on. We have to both sacrifice through compromise to achieve our goal. Sometimes it is difficult, but life choices often are.

Back to the point at hand. What is a owner to do when there is no weight room left, according to the scales, and personal items are not loaded yet? And what of the heavy front axle? Must the owner get a trailer and a off road toy?

Where do we go from here?

Happy trails,

Rick Y
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Old 12-17-2015, 09:30 PM   #66
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Have ya'll noticed all the newbies now,and a lot of them this is there first coach and they don't have a clue about it (that's fine,we all started out that way).Do you think there going to know anything about asking the dealer about the weight and do you think the dealer going to say,oh and by the way this coach is over weight.So yes the manufacturers has to get there act together.The manufacturers are all trying to out do the other,they just keep building them bigger,adding more thing,all tile floors,that all equal weight.So I really don't know who you blame here,I don't think it's the buyer.
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Old 12-17-2015, 09:47 PM   #67
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I have not been following this discussion closely so I may be missing something here. If I recall correctly, one poster was pointing out that their coach was at or over the weight limit driving it off the dealers lot and another was told that the coach was designed to tow a 15,000# trailer with a 1,500# tongue weight to get the front axle corrected. DA???? The old saying in the computer world is Garbage in. Garbage out. Are we not seeing this as a fact if these folks are correct in their observations?

We are at the mercy of the RV builders more than we care to think. Being a well educated RV buyer is the only weapon we have going for us. Forums, such as this, are a good source of information, true, but the web has much more info available to the buyer wanting to do the needed homework.

I will confess that I did not dig as deeply as I could have when we bought this coach. Loading it was not even a though considered because of the volume of space available in the basement and in the living quarters. I simply trusted the reputation of the manufactures of the major components to have done their jobs well. I was a bit wrong.

It didn't take long to overload the rig. We have shed some weight but we must continue to do so. We are becoming wiser campers as time goes on. We have to both sacrifice through compromise to achieve our goal. Sometimes it is difficult, but life choices often are.

Back to the point at hand. What is a owner to do when there is no weight room left, according to the scales, and personal items are not loaded yet? And what of the heavy front axle? Must the owner get a trailer and a off road toy?

Where do we go from here?

Happy trails,

Rick Y
With a non tag coach, there isn't much you can do to get weight off of the steer axle. Maybe a couple hundred lbs at the most. In your case, I think the Meridian has 275/70R22.5 tires, load range H. At 125 psi, the front tires can carry 13,880#, but the steer axle is only rated at 12,350#. Ask Freightliner what the weak link is in the axle. Usually axles are rated in even 1000's or 500's, so maybe there is a component that can be upgraded to get you to a 13,000# axle. Maybe not, but worth a try. At least you are not overloading the tires and there is a safety factor built into the axle.
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Old 12-18-2015, 09:53 AM   #68
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With a non tag coach, there isn't much you can do to get weight off of the steer axle. Maybe a couple hundred lbs at the most. In your case, I think the Meridian has 275/70R22.5 tires, load range H. At 125 psi, the front tires can carry 13,880#, but the steer axle is only rated at 12,350#. Ask Freightliner what the weak link is in the axle. Usually axles are rated in even 1000's or 500's, so maybe there is a component that can be upgraded to get you to a 13,000# axle. Maybe not, but worth a try. At least you are not overloading the tires and there is a safety factor built into the axle.
You are correct about options on loading. My original tires were the Michelin 275/80R22.5 XZE if I recall correctly. I don't want to disturb the DW and dog by going out to look at the rear wheels. They are sleeping in this morning. (XZE-2. Got to peek at them.) Anyway, these tires are rated at 110 psi max cold. The coach "door tag" gives the psi front & rear as 110 psi. Out of the factory the tires were maxed out for the GVW. I have replaced the front tires with a batter tire but the sizing was a problem. I hope to get two more years out of the duels. I am moving away from Michelin. I am leaning toward Toyo. I have had too much side wall cracking over the years and this forum has had several threads on this topic.

But, Winnebago requested from Freightliner the spec of this coach. The tires requested by the corner cutters do not provide a safety margin, as far as I am concerned. My axles are running at max or over but I am not concerned with the suspension parts. They are much more capable of being bullied around on the road than the tires.

It has been mentioned that newbeeies haven't a clue a what they are doing when buying any RV. They do the eye candy exercise and buy through emotional response. They really don't know what is in store for them when they get the rig home. I have never seen a dealer suggest that the prospective customer log into irv2.com and ask for advise. The sales staffs main goal is to sell enough product to be kept on staff. It's a job.

Now the deal is struck. The dealer assigns someone to do the per-delivery walk through. A question might be asked when the inverter control panel is pointed out; When do we use the inverter. The guide replies; Oh, don't worry about that. You only need it in an emergency. You see my point. The only good advise that comes out of the tour might be to read the information in the documentation bag.

So here we are. Full circle. The problem has not gone away. The rig is too heavy for the chassis spec out of the factory door. Now what?

Happy trails,
Rick Y
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:50 AM   #69
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As a first time Rv'er and fairly new to the Rv forums. I would say that yes, most first time buyers don't know ALL the appropriate questions to ask a perspective dealership. I would also say that any good dealer would answer any and all questions ask from either an experienced or new buyer. Lazy Days was my dealer and while I would bet that my salesman was not knowledgeable on every aspect of every manufacturer on their lot, I have no doubt that if I had ask a question he would have went to their very large technician force and found me the answer. He is there to sell and not point out all the technical aspects of a coach. I don't have an issue with that. On the other hand I have looked closely at a lot of manufactures web sites and can say that weight and distribution is a very Glossed over area. I have flown for many many years in large and small aircraft, weight and balance is a common thing for me; however, It was not even an area I thought about when looking at an RV(other than reading the Brochure for the OCCC/NCC/UVW). Thanks to IRV2 I am very much educated on Axle, Gross, and Cargo capacity weights and you can bet it will be a priority when I look at my next coach as well as when I travel in my present coach. While tires and components are very well manufactured to a excess safety value more than generally what is published, my family and friends riding with me are more important than testing that engineering overage.

The better I am educated on the values the better I can handle situations that may occur, even if briefly overloaded, or avoid all together. In the airplane field we call it breaking the chain of events that lead to a catastrophic failure, whether it be human or mechanical. I hope manufactures get better as it receives more attention, but there is nothing better than education of the public buyer.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:30 AM   #70
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You are correct about options on loading. My original tires were the Michelin 275/80R22.5 XZE if I recall correctly. I don't want to disturb the DW and dog by going out to look at the rear wheels. They are sleeping in this morning. (XZE-2. Got to peek at them.) Anyway, these tires are rated at 110 psi max cold. The coach "door tag" gives the psi front & rear as 110 psi. Out of the factory the tires were maxed out for the GVW. I have replaced the front tires with a batter tire but the sizing was a problem. I hope to get two more years out of the duels. I am moving away from Michelin. I am leaning toward Toyo. I have had too much side wall cracking over the years and this forum has had several threads on this topic.

But, Winnebago requested from Freightliner the spec of this coach. The tires requested by the corner cutters do not provide a safety margin, as far as I am concerned. My axles are running at max or over but I am not concerned with the suspension parts. They are much more capable of being bullied around on the road than the tires.

It has been mentioned that newbeeies haven't a clue a what they are doing when buying any RV. They do the eye candy exercise and buy through emotional response. They really don't know what is in store for them when they get the rig home. I have never seen a dealer suggest that the prospective customer log into irv2.com and ask for advise. The sales staffs main goal is to sell enough product to be kept on staff. It's a job.

Now the deal is struck. The dealer assigns someone to do the per-delivery walk through. A question might be asked when the inverter control panel is pointed out; When do we use the inverter. The guide replies; Oh, don't worry about that. You only need it in an emergency. You see my point. The only good advise that comes out of the tour might be to read the information in the documentation bag.

So here we are. Full circle. The problem has not gone away. The rig is too heavy for the chassis spec out of the factory door. Now what?

Happy trails,
Rick Y
There should be a Freightliner incomplete sticker near the drivers seat. It will tell you the axle rating as installed by Freightliner.

Incomplete vehicles may have many components but the final say is the coach manufacturer on the axle capacity. They may have done something to change the capacity.

Our coach has 16,000 axle derated to 15560 by WBGO. We are currently running 13,800 fully loaded.
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