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Old 10-08-2013, 01:42 PM   #1
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Mystery Wiring in breaker box

We recently picked up our 2001 HR Scepter and we are staying in it to do an initial shakeout of the unit. I have had a guy here on IRV2 with a Scepter just like mine that has been a tremendous help on a great many things that I did not understand and I want to thank him greatly for that help but I could never resolve the issue with the Electrical Management System thinking we were plugged into 30 Amp service when we were actually plugged into 50 Amp service. I finally get time to check it out last night (and it wasn't raining ) so I took my multimeter out and I check the pedestal. It was good. I check the distribution box, It was good. I open up the breaker box and lo & behold what I find is the red wire has been disconnected (left loose to shock the crap out of someone or touch the panel box) and a jumper from the black wire has been run over to where the red wire was. I am at a loss as to why and what a person would gain to do this. It is obviously done on purpose. But why!? I am attaching a picture of what I saw. Anyone that can tell me I am all ears. PS; the EMS shows that I am now connected to 50 Amp service.

Not sure if this incident is connected to this wiring snafu or not but the electric part of the water heater quit last night as well. Cold shower this morning! Brrr.

(I love these smileys now that I know how to use them.)
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:58 PM   #2
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I think this is a case for a professional electrician. While you have identified some wiring irregularities, there's no telling what reason it was done or what other modifications were made in addition. A pro will be able to check all circuits and wiring and put wiring correct. These kinds of modifications can be dangerous and expensive.
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:03 PM   #3
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Alan,

With that specific configuration, you would always only have 50 amps from one LEG total to use between both LEGS of the RV BUT the EMS system would ALWAYS think it was only 30 amps.

There is no reasonable explanation for that mess which is a very dangerous situation.

You might start with where you purchased the RV from first and go from there.

The electrical portion of the hot water heater goes through your EMS system. Because of the situation discovered in the EMS system, I would THOROUGHLY check the entire EMS system to make sure it is working properly.

If you need technical advice with the Intellitec EMS system, call Mark or Chris at (419) 965-3014 and they are the guru's for this system.

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Old 10-08-2013, 02:15 PM   #4
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My SIL is an electrician and he looked at it but RV electrical is not his forte. He told me that it would only register 30 amps so that would explain the reading on the EMS. I will be taking the MH back to the dealer as they have some things to finish when the ordered parts come in plus I have a list of other things for them to correct. So far I have found no one that has a clue about this wiring. I had hoped to talk to the previous owner to ask him some questions but it appears he recently passed away so that is not going to happen. I did a lot of asking people last night when I discovered it and this morning, including the dealer, before I posted anything here. They will look it over next week when I bring it back over to them. Thanks for the input guys.

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Old 10-08-2013, 03:35 PM   #5
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One of the dealers employees just called and told me that it appears to be there was a problem with the inverter at some point in the past and the jumper was there to make outlets work the inverter is supposed to be powering. It is beyond me or my knowledge but I will keep asking until I get an answer that can be explained to where i understand it. I think I am being fed a line but then I am not sure.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:43 PM   #6
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Yes, that's the biggest line of BS but it is a dealer and what the hell do they know! Al they want is the next sale.

I have an EMS system the same as yours and if you would like, I can take some photos of mine so you can compare.

I also run an inverter that is stock from the factory.

Has someone messed with the inverter and possibly installed something that isn't compatible with your electrical system?

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Old 10-08-2013, 03:57 PM   #7
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I agree with Dr4Film, the dealer's explanation is completely bogus! The disconnected red wire is the 50 amp hot leg of the shore cord. It was disconnected and a jumper put in to share the other 50 amp leg. That would not correct an issue with the inverter. Check that the shore cord plug is connected properly. The only reason that modification might have been made would be if a pedestal was not working properly and re-wired the box to get some power to the other leg of the 50 amp service. BUT, there could be other issues with the EMS, a breaker, or some other issue not yet found. Still think a professional would be the safe call, but not that guy at the dealer!
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:18 PM   #8
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Take it back to the stealer and have them test the electrical system and reconnect the wire. Is should be but an hour's worth of labor. Pay them to do it and if something gets fried, they were the last to work on it, they should cover their repair. If they don't want to work on it, call the BBB. After all, they sold you the coach and it is a hazard as it currently exists.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:29 PM   #9
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Is that red wire actually hot? Did you take a reading for voltage? If it is not hot it's possible that it is a broken leg and they jumpered the 50 amp breaker so that the other half of the panel would work.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:32 PM   #10
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Just plain foolish.

You did indicate the RED wire is HOT.

I haven't looked at a possible transfer switch issue yet but this was a temporary dumb fix. At least they could have taped up the wire and left a note inside.

Here is the diagram for the EMS panel.

Work your way through it and you will find some excellent information. I looked at some digital pictures of my panel and they match yours exactly.

Here is a block diagram that may help in understanding the issue.Inteltech 50 amp smart energy management sys.pdf
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:46 PM   #11
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I'm an electrician.
With your volt meter, the red and black wires should each have 120v on them from neutral (white) and 220 across the black & white. It looks like they may have an "open" on the red, so they just jumpered the black to the other side of the 2 pole 50 so as to power both busses in the panel. You don't have 220v now just 120 on both/either side of the panel. Won't hurt anything or be dangerous if the red wire is dead. But, if it were me, I'd find out why the red wire is dead.
It looks like romex coming into the panel. The red wire has probably come loose from the "prong" on the plug end.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malexander View Post
I'm an electrician.
With your volt meter, the red and black wires should each have 120v on them from neutral (white) and 220 across the black & white. It looks like they may have an "open" on the red, so they just jumpered the black to the other side of the 2 pole 50 so as to power both busses in the panel. You don't have 220v now just 120 on both/either side of the panel. Won't hurt anything or be dangerous if the red wire is dead. But, if it were me, I'd find out why the red wire is dead.
It looks like romex coming into the panel. The red wire has probably come loose from the "prong" on the plug end.
You're going to have 220V across the Black and the White??? I think Not! You would have 220V across the Red and the Black providing there is nothing wrong with that Red wire.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:47 PM   #13
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We can only guess here on the forum without seeing everything. Agree with others about having a qualified person check it out. My guess is that the red line has a break in it, or the pedestal was messed up. Either way, what kind of idiot leaves a potentially hot wire just sitting there.
Somewhat off topic, when I got my coach the Norclod would blow a fuse whenever the outside temp went below 40F. Turned out to be a thermodisc wired across the 12 volt wiring going to the fridge. Whatever?
Let us know what you find out.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:30 PM   #14
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Please reread what I said about voltages between wires, I beg you please!!!
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