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DriVer · 07-05-2005, 04:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RV Roamer:
I'm guessing that two factors are at play here. First, WCC shareholders get a chance to turn a nice profit on their investment, after making WCC a successful business venture. Second, Navistar gets a foot in the burgeoning RV chassis business. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By George I think he's got it!

The Shadow · 07-05-2005, 05:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RV Roamer:
And WCC already builds a diesel chassis, so don't expect the Wxx series to drop gas engines.

I'm guessing that two factors are at play here. First, WCC shareholders get a chance to turn a nice profit on their investment, after making WCC a successful business venture. Second, Navistar gets a foot in the burgeoning RV chassis business. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or, could it be that the parent, Carlyle Group, gets rid of a loser that has very high debt ($185 million) and likely a high debt to equity ratio, very high warranty and development costs and very low DP chassis sales (and the DP chassis, it appears, was assembled by another company in the family - Autocar, not WH). Frankly I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it was definitely a sale from a position of strength.

LVJ58 · 07-05-2005, 06:49 PM

Driver, regarding your mention of the Navistar 7.3 powerstroke, it's been replaced with the new 6.0 powerstroke which is about 200lbs lighter than the 7.3 and produces more hp and torque. Perhaps the new WCC/Navistar may keep the 8.1, but seems like it would be economically feasible for Navistar to use the engine they presently produce, but who am I to say.

Best Regards

DriVer · 07-05-2005, 06:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dleslie125:
(and the DP chassis, it appears, was assembled by another company in the family - Autocar, not WH).. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't believe that this is going to change. The R-Series RDP chassis are built in Hagerstown, IN on a separate line that also provides the new LF72 Low Floor Bus Chassis.

The R-Series chassis from inception to ship out is hand built on a precision assembly line that features for instance Huck bolt fasteners and redundant framing to give the chassis great rigidity and strength over its lifetime. Many other design features such as lowered engine placement, shortened drive shaft, and other critical rear suspension components assure a constant driveshaft angle as the suspension moves up and down. These features are unique to Workhorse and its what distinguishes them as a builder of RDP chassis.

Of importance to people in the know is that the rail is never flipped during assembly. The Cummins engine is very well admired by the RVing public and the industry leading Allison MH3000 is also standard equipment.

I can only imagine that in time if Navistar contributes a margin of their expertise that things are only going to get better for the RV buying public by offering them more choices. WCC gives IH this avenue to travel and I'm sure that this venture will profit both companies.

DriVer · 07-05-2005, 07:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LVJ58:
Driver, regarding your mention of the Navistar 7.3 Powerstroke, it's been replaced with the new 6.0 Powerstroke which is about 200lbs lighter than the 7.3 and produces more hp and torque. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LVJ58, Very true! I was only mentioning this because some (read lots) folks were more partial to their 7.3L instead of the 6.0L.

WCC will remain a stand alone company and its supply chain and component mix as it stands will continue as far as I can tell. All the releases allude to the fact that nothing will change, not even the name.

We're all hoping that with Navistar on-board that new opportunities will present themselves that will make our RV buying experience so much the better.

07-05-2005, 10:41 PM

.....workhorse is now a combine....try to stay away for fields of straw or it mite take a row or two to get it under control....geofkaye ;&gt

The Shadow · 07-06-2005, 05:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dleslie125:
(and the DP chassis, it appears, was assembled by another company in the family - Autocar, not WH).. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't believe that this is going to change. The R-Series RDP chassis are built in Hagerstown, IN on a separate line that also provides the new LF72 Low Floor Bus Chassis.

The R-Series chassis from inception to ship out is hand built on a precision assembly line that features for instance Huck bolt fasteners and redundant framing to give the chassis great rigidity and strength over its lifetime. Many other design features such as lowered engine placement, shortened drive shaft, and other critical rear suspension components assure a constant driveshaft angle as the suspension moves up and down. These features are unique to Workhorse and its what distinguishes them as a builder of RDP chassis.

Of importance to people in the know is that the rail is never flipped during assembly. The Cummins engine is very well admired by the RVing public and the industry leading Allison MH3000 is also standard equipment.

I can only imagine that in time if Navistar contributes a margin of their expertise that things are only going to get better for the RV buying public by offering them more choices. WCC gives IH this avenue to travel and I'm sure that this venture will profit both companies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, we visited the Freightliner factory in April when we had our MH serviced and we were very impressed. Why is it that they have 60% of the market? If the WH DP chassis is all that wonderful, why has it attracted so few MH manufacturers to this point? If we could see their numbers (has anyone seen their numbers?) I think we'd find that the DP development costs have had limited payback to date and have been a real drag on WH - and may well have been one of the reasons for the sale.

I believe the sale of WH should improve service levels since one would expect the International service facilities to become WH service locations in the future.

edgray · 07-06-2005, 06:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I believe the sale of WH should improve service levels since one would expect the International service facilities to become WH service locations in the future. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well now THERE is a great idea! I wonder just how many IH service centers there are?? ED

The Shadow · 07-06-2005, 06:30 PM

Ed - International has over 1000 dealers in North America. I doubt that all would end up providing MH service but I would not be surprised to find a lot of them providing service for the DP and also for the gasser. Even if only a third eventually become service dealers for WH products that would be a very good outcome - on aveage 5 or 6 per state and province.

DriVer · 07-06-2005, 06:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dleslie125:
Why is it that they have 60% of the market? If the WH DP chassis is all that wonderful, why has it attracted so few MH manufacturers to this point? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I certainly can't speak about numbers because I don't know the numbers.

The following is mostly conjecture on my part since I have no incite in financial matters but here goes.

Imagine if you will an existing large company that makes a particular product that is a great product and works well enough to suit everyone's expectations. Now imagine if you will an upstart competitor that is trying to make in roads into a particular market segment on its own without the major capital of an ultra large company. In order for the smaller company to compete it's possible that it would have to maintain certain margins that make it profitable to do business.

Now the larger company could if it wanted to approach its customers and price themselves more attractively than the smaller company and this is what we often see in business climes regardless of product. It's all a matter of scale and who can afford slimmer margins for a given product. Look at Wal*Mart as an example in comparison to any other retailer.

Now if the smaller competitor in this instance has an 800 pound gorilla in its corner then I believe that this could level the playing field and both manufacturers could compete by playing the same dollars and cents strategy. I'm sure that although both manufacturers will continue to feature advanced technology and brand name awareness, it's going to be the bottom line that may win out.

Regardless of current market position this new synergy will allow WCC increased ability to compete more effectively with its brand of RDP and we can only expect to see more OEMs bringing on the WCC RDP in the very near future.

The key for both manufacturers is by making good products better and still be able to make a profit. Some of the other significant players in this business are Spartan and RoadMaster. These guys are the middle men in the RDP RV business if you will. These products are very nice ones as well and it'll be interesting to see how they will move one way or the other over the next few quarters.

cvrvr · 07-12-2005, 02:53 PM

I sure hope that the Navistar/International buyout works with Workhorse.

I can remember about 30 years ago when I had to two different International vehicles (TravelAll and Scout. Both vehicles were build like the old brick house but when you did need parts it took forever to get them. Internation parts distribution was terrible. Hopefully it has improved a hole lot.

As far as the Workhorse diesel is concerned. My guess is that Workhorse will discotinue it, within the next year or so.

George

Cruzer · 07-13-2005, 05:32 AM

As a former diesel mechanic I'm quite familiar with the IH products. International-Harvestor is a great company and backs their product very well. The only product they won't stand behind is their manure spreaders.

YosemiteBobR · 07-13-2005, 01:15 PM

The deal closes this Friday. I do indeed hope it stays the same and I think it will. At least for a year or two. If you have not noticed it has been a bit more difficult to get OKs from WH for warranty work. Don't get me wrong they come through for major things but for the questionable things it's been a bit harder all this to make their books look better. Should get back to normal after Friday. I hope.