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Old 11-24-2013, 07:19 AM   #43
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Most gas units now use the Ford P53 chassis, those brakes really leave you reaching for the floor, I recently drove Demo'd 3 of them.

Then there's the rocking and rolling, the engine noise esp if you using a lot of power, the big bump in the floor.

Resale value

Fuel economy, the entry level DP with 300-340HP are getting 10-11mpg

The V10 gas'r gets 7

v10 oil change every 3,000 6 quarts
DP 16 quarts every 15,000

So you're paying to have the oil changed labor wise 5 times along with 5 filters. Tthat's 4 times to service center to drop off then pickup or wait.

30 quarts v 16 on diesel.

The ride with P53's has been reported here numerous times, death wobble, white knuckled stressful driving, adding hundeds if not thousands of dollars of equipment to help the handling

.
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:39 AM   #44
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It is strange to me that DP folks are so determined to bash the gas units. Everyone to their own. A friend of mine has a 42 foot DP with a tag axle. On a long trip, he was pulled over by the highway patrol because the officer thought he was sleepy since he was weaving. He said his arms were sore due to the white knuckling. BTW, he is relatively young at under 50. Since we wanted a new unit and didn't want to pay the higher price for a DP, we bought a new 35P Adventurer and are VERY happy with it.
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:59 AM   #45
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It is strange to me that DP folks are so determined to bash the gas units. Everyone to their own. A friend of mine has a 42 foot DP with a tag axle. On a long trip, he was pulled over by the highway patrol because the officer thought he was sleepy since he was weaving. He said his arms were sore due to the white knuckling. BTW, he is relatively young at under 50. Since we wanted a new unit and didn't want to pay the higher price for a DP, we bought a new 35P Adventurer and are VERY happy with it.
I hate to have to tell you this (and I hope you have already told your friend) but your friends tag axle Coach needs some serious attention , I can't even fathom driving something that is driving so bad that a police officer had to pull me over! The tag axle Coach is the easiest, most stable, comfortable, best riding, load carrying, etc (if set up properly mechanically) RV on the road. If you haven't already told your friend that he has a problem that can and should be fixed and his Coach should not drive like that you need to. This thread is about the inside comforts between the two coming closer together(I think) but as far as the drive train there will always be a huge gap that will never come close.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:03 AM   #46
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I have a W22 chassis with the 8.1 Workhorse. I have a banks system and I don't have any problems on long hill climbs. I use Mobile 1 and change oil and filter once a year (average 14,000 to 15,000 miles a year). The 8.1 engine is relatively quiet on the road. We have floorplan that my wife loves. Gas vs Diesel........buy what you like and don't worry what others say!!!
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:59 AM   #47
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Most gas units now use the Ford P53 chassis, those brakes really leave you reaching for the floor, I recently drove Demo'd 3 of them.

Then there's the rocking and rolling, the engine noise esp if you using a lot of power, the big bump in the floor.

Resale value

Fuel economy, the entry level DP with 300-340HP are getting 10-11mpg

The V10 gas'r gets 7

v10 oil change every 3,000 6 quarts
DP 16 quarts every 15,000

So you're paying to have the oil changed labor wise 5 times along with 5 filters. Tthat's 4 times to service center to drop off then pickup or wait.

30 quarts v 16 on diesel.

The ride with P53's has been reported here numerous times, death wobble, white knuckled stressful driving, adding hundeds if not thousands of dollars of equipment to help the handling

.

Unless you actually measure the braking distance it is hard to go by just feel on the brakes. Every type of vehicle has a different braking feel. But they still stop in similar distances. The F53 brakes are very good as they are also used on F650 and F750 with hydraulic brakes. So its easy to say the F53 is not lacking braking abilities. Your oil change stats are also very wrong. You could change oil every 3k but that is personal choice. They are capable of 7500 mile intervals. So you have 6 quarts of oil around $2.50 a quart and a filter around $4.50. My suspension is completely stock and I have no driving issues or handling issues. I also had to slam on the brakes on my coach where the ABS had to kick in to prevent lock up. Sure a diesel pusher would be nice but I just cannot justify the dramatic price increase where my coach does pretty much everything I need. BTW I also get 8.5 MPG with my coach towing my toad. Where current gas prices are $2.99 a gal and diesel prices are currently $3.89 a gal, im not worried about the cost of fuel.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:44 PM   #48
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I have also observed that many of the newer gas coaches have had upgrades done to the interior to make them look like a DP.
But I have also discovered that trying to convince someone that the choice that is right for you is also right for them is a waste of time.
Many years ago my father told me " A MAN CONVINCED AGAINST HIS WILL IS OF THE SAME OPINION STILL"

In the mean time I will continue to make decisions that are right for me and not try to convince others who disagree that I am right and they are wrong. My suggestion is buy the right one for YOU.

And most importantly enjoy yourself as none of us know long we have left.

Take Care!!!

Bob
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:19 PM   #49
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But does anyone build them (freightliner Fred) or is it just offered? I think the bounder diesel was a Fred but I don't see it currently on offer for 2014. I noticed a lot of the more interesting plans like the verandah arevgone. It also seems you need to go 5ver to get a island in the kitchen now. Glad to see some kountry coach people still around. Didn't some kountry coach and Monaco people have service centres. Travel supreme into entegra if I recall. Seems like a lot of streamlining of product. Of course the tech side of things now has gone through the roof.

Def tanks starting to switch to driver side, but that's 13ish gallons of storage gone AWOL
We have an 08 Gulf Stream FRED and the engine is relatively quiet. I agree that when you initially pull out the engine noise is slightly louder but after it levels out it's relatively quiet. And no point in time do you have to yell to be heard! It's all about your requirements.... layout, purchase price, maintenance,etc. Our main requirement was a mid entry coach and then a large kitchen, full body paint, storage... and keeping within a price range of less than 120K. We met 99% of our requirements with our 08 FRED and never regretted our decision. We are not full timers yet but we did put 12K on ours last year and loved every mile.
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:52 PM   #50
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I am hearing everyone on the king size bed. Our 5th wheel (traded) and home has a king size bed. Personally, I like the queen that brings me closer to my better half when sleeping. Always thought the king had more distance than I wanted.
The great thing about this debate is that there is a great MH out there for everyone. Depends on your personal preferences and wants. Either way it is the best way to see this great country and more!
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:00 PM   #51
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now that diesel costs more than gas, I figured that this would have some effect also on this discussion, but it continues to be the battle of the torque vs the acceleration. Both fuels seem to be merging into a giesel or a dasoline? Propane might be the best bet.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:03 PM   #52
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The great thing about this debate is that there is a great MH out there for everyone. Depends on your personal preferences and wants. Either way it is the best way to see this great country and more!
Well said! I confess am having fierce fun searching for ours while imagining how each one would fit (or not!).

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Old 11-25-2013, 09:30 AM   #53
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This thread sure devolved into the Gas vs Diesel drivetrain debate.

My MH is a good ole bounder on the 20,500lbs F53 chassis and I think it's great. We have the washer drier combo, double door fridge and tons of room with a single slide. After hearing that Gas chassis motorhomes can get another 6,000lbs or so of GVWR, I think that is good news. Even though a lot of that is probably taken up with multiple slides, a few thousand pounds can add a lot of luxury to the interior.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:03 PM   #54
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Needless to say the DP fans will always say theirs is better. But then again they paid 2X as much for their coach For my coach gasoline is available everywhere, servicing cost is almost nil, just as comfortable and spacious, no special license endorsements so my wife will drive it etc.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:13 PM   #55
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I live fulltime in a MH with a big gas chassis. It is an '07 Mountain Aire 3991 sitting on the Workhorse 25,500 lb. platform. I am the second owner and have had this coach for 18 months. Newmar managed to put most of the quality and ammenities of a higher end DP on a gas chassis (with the optional full Banks system.) There is a certain part of the market that, like me, is happy to go this route.

My first MH was a 460 Ford chassis with the Banks system. I spent a large part of my life driving a big truck and know a little bit about diesels. For 11 years now I have fulltimed with gasoline. I am not the first one to the top of the hill and I don't get to say I have a pusher. But I have all day and part of tomorrow to get there. Also have a few buck left over to supplement my lifestyle.

I am not trying to fan the flames of the gas vs. diesel debate. Just saying what works for me. I can only imagine now, 7 years after my 2007, they are making some nice large gas rigs.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:18 PM   #56
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Needless to say the DP fans will always say theirs is better. But then again they paid 2X as much for their coach For my coach gasoline is available everywhere, servicing cost is almost nil, just as comfortable and spacious, no special license endorsements so my wife will drive it etc.
Simpler words have rarely been spoken before

BTW, in many cases 2X is a conservative estimate

Safe travels to all
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