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Old 06-26-2016, 08:04 AM   #15
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We are on our second used DP. When we decided to upgrade from an 11 year old Winnebago Journey, we considered new but quickly dismissed that idea for the following reasons:

1. Huge depreciation
2. My low tolerance for spending a year or more at a dealer or factory to get things fixed that should have been taken care of during any decent factory QA/QC process, which IMO, most manufacturers just don't do well.
3. Our good experience with our first, carefully selected, used DP
4. The ability to spend far less money and get higher quality.

So we targeted mid 2000's higher end coaches....Newmar MA and Essex, American Eagles, Monaco Dynasty or up, even considered Foretravel. We stumbled upon the Allure we now have while looking even though CC had not been on our list (my ignorance of the fact that CC was back in business for parts, tech support and service).

No regrets. For far less than $200K we got a really nice, fully featured coach that is solidly built, drives and rides like a dream. It was 6 years old when we got it, had 32K miles, one owner, well maintained. We spent about $6K upgrading the cabinet/bath/kitchen hardware to brushed nickel, new sofa and two recliners, new TV's, LED lighting, and we are now having the carpet replaced (maybe another $1,800).

There are advantages to both... new or gently used. For us gently used high end was the choice.
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Old 06-26-2016, 11:58 AM   #16
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How to go from New passer in 2014 to late model diesel

This thread is exactly where we were two years ago and I decided to buy a new gasser after standing behind a 10 year old Monaco with the CAT running making those CAT sounds I love having spent 45 years in the truck industry (retired white collar - not able to afford any level of new diesel at the time). Why did I choose the new gasser? For the warranty! Wow did we ever need the warranty!
Now I want to upgrade to a 2008/2009/2010 38-40' low mileage diesel. Found one last week. Got approved by the only financial institution the dealer can use for a 2008- - but didn't like the cash amount needed nor the interest rate.
I understand the upside down on my current loan but lender wanted that paid in cash as well as 10% down. After that explanation my question is?
Are there lending institutions that specialize in this secondary market or does one just have to have $100,000 to $140,000 cash. If so how does one get preapproved for $x amount in a loan with a reasonable interest rate? (My credit union will finance us on a new/used car or truck but the caps on term and $ are too low for what we need)
Just keep what we have for another few years??
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by THS Hammer View Post
This thread is exactly where we were two years ago and I decided to buy a new gasser after standing behind a 10 year old Monaco with the CAT running making those CAT sounds I love having spent 45 years in the truck industry (retired white collar - not able to afford any level of new diesel at the time). Why did I choose the new gasser? For the warranty! Wow did we ever need the warranty!

Now I want to upgrade to a 2008/2009/2010 38-40' low mileage diesel. Found one last week. Got approved by the only financial institution the dealer can use for a 2008- - but didn't like the cash amount needed nor the interest rate.

I understand the upside down on my current loan but lender wanted that paid in cash as well as 10% down. After that explanation my question is?

Are there lending institutions that specialize in this secondary market or does one just have to have $100,000 to $140,000 cash. If so how does one get preapproved for $x amount in a loan with a reasonable interest rate? (My credit union will finance us on a new/used car or truck but the caps on term and $ are too low for what we need)

Just keep what we have for another few years??


These folks do lots of RV financing:

https://www.essexcredit.com/home/rv/
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Old 06-26-2016, 02:32 PM   #18
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Thank you. I will contact them.
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Old 06-26-2016, 05:35 PM   #19
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Go with the Dutch Star, PM Mr.D and get his personal opinion, I'm sure he will respond to this thread though. Can't beat the Newmar quality, and when spending that kind of money I would rather have something new, that I know how it has been maintained, driven, and taken care of, and will have a warranty as well. Plus there are really a lot of new amenities and technology in the last 8 years.
I agree to contact Mr_D. I believe his issue is with the Cummins ISX 650 engine not the coach. I cannot recall many issues with the coach but he has said he wishes he would have bought another Newmar.
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Old 06-26-2016, 05:53 PM   #20
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From what I have seen, that 2-5 year old top of the line coach will be more costly than a new Dutch Star or equivalent.

You raise a good point that I have not found discussed on this forum. Many posts here about the big depreciation on a new coach, but they may be working off the MSRP, and no one pays that. Most buyers get 25-35% off the MSRP. I have seen 1-2 year old coaches with asking prices HIGHER than a new coach.

Foretravels are great, but a 2-5 year old one is likely more costly than any mid-range new coach.
I have no experience with Foretravel except looking on their website. When you consider that a new ih-45 has an MSRP of over $1.3M Foretravel Texas

They look very, very nice. Like the fact they include the Mobile Eye Collision Avoidance System, the Fog-Maker Engine Fire Suppression System and TyronŽ Bead‐Lock Tire Blowout Protection (front tires).
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Old 06-26-2016, 06:11 PM   #21
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New Dutch Star or 8-10 year old high end Country Coach or Monaco?

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Originally Posted by cbramsey View Post
I have no experience with Foretravel except looking on their website. When you consider that a new ih-45 has an MSRP of over $1.3M Foretravel Texas

They look very, very nice. Like the fact they include the Mobile Eye Collision Avoidance System, the Fog-Maker Engine Fire Suppression System and TyronŽ Bead‐Lock Tire Blowout Protection (front tires).

VERY nice!
Ain't dreams nifty?
A healthy used rig would be in the neighborhood of 10% of that. Or 10 of them, if needed!


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Old 06-26-2016, 06:52 PM   #22
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The only time we were able to get exactly what we wanted was when we ordered our current coach in 2013. We couldn't be happier and have never seen an older one that had what we have now. It's our dirt and warranty took care of some minor issues in the first year. If you can afford it, order out a new Dutch Star with the options you want. Our son ordered and bought a new Mountain Aire last August and Newmar did what he wanted. In our book, New is the way to go.
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Old 06-28-2016, 07:04 AM   #23
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Dutch Star's while not the top of the food chain for DP's and or Newmar, are not an entry level coach. Your logic is pretty sound.

That being said, the key words in the above sentence, is 'not the top of the food chain'.

IMO, 5 years down the road, a 5-7 year old top of the food chain coach - will be better to live with then a Dutch Star. (And, not a knock of Dutch Star, as mentioned - I see them as a solid above entry level coach. Say a C+ to even B- in the pecking order of DP's.)

That high end older coach, will usually have a more solid chassis, bigger block engine with Jake Compression Brake, better components and material choices. And as mentioned, the lower purchase price point, allows a reasonable investment in 'making it your specific coach' modifications.

I personally feel the years of usage with a higher end coach, pays dividends that more then make up for the possible lower sale price (and not sure how much lower the older higher end, and yet upgraded coach, would be...) - way down the road.

But, only you can make a decision on what you feel is right t for you...

Best of luck to you on your choice. Enjoy, whatever way you go!
Smitty
We really like the CC Intrigue and Allure, but those lightly used and in great shape are priced between $150k and $250k...and this is a 10 year old coach!

This pricing seems very high to me. A new Allure in 2006 probably sold at around $300K and Intrigue less than $400k. Where is the huge depreciation many speak of? Are these high prices due to demand or what?
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Old 06-28-2016, 05:12 PM   #24
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Dutch Star's while not the top of the food chain for DP's and or Newmar, are not an entry level coach. Your logic is pretty sound.

That being said, the key words in the above sentence, is 'not the top of the food chain'.

IMO, 5 years down the road, a 5-7 year old top of the food chain coach - will be better to live with then a Dutch Star. (And, not a knock of Dutch Star, as mentioned - I see them as a solid above entry level coach. Say a C+ to even B- in the pecking order of DP's.)

That high end older coach, will usually have a more solid chassis, bigger block engine with Jake Compression Brake, better components and material choices. And as mentioned, the lower purchase price point, allows a reasonable investment in 'making it your specific coach' modifications.

I personally feel the years of usage with a higher end coach, pays dividends that more then make up for the possible lower sale price (and not sure how much lower the older higher end, and yet upgraded coach, would be...) - way down the road.

But, only you can make a decision on what you feel is right t for you...

Best of luck to you on your choice. Enjoy, whatever way you go!
Smitty
So Smitty (or anyone else willing to offer their advice), what would you say is the pecking order of say the top 10.
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Old 06-28-2016, 05:32 PM   #25
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So Smitty (or anyone else willing to offer their advice), what would you say is the pecking order of say the top 10.
That is very subjective and really is all about budget, needs, buying new or used, or gas vs diesel. Based on your other post and your mentioned budget, I would personally rate the top 3 as;

Newmar
Tiffin
Winnebago

There may be a few others, but in the original price you stated you will not get all the amenities or newer technology used in any brands that top these three. Now if you have several hundred thousand to spend the list would grow, and you could get the amenities you want with newer technology new or used. That being said these three would still remain on the upper end of the list of 10 brands.
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:02 PM   #26
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To me another perk of a used luxury liner would be not having to deal with a diesel particulate filter (dpf) and diesel exhaust fluid (def). My coach was one of the last years to be able not to have those. The combination of the features that ours has and not having the dpf and def is why we bought ours 3 years ago. I'm amazed at the technology that our coach has on it like collision avoidance, ABS, traction control, and power blinds on all the front windows including the living area, keyless entry and power remote controlled locks on all the outside storage bay doors and on and on. I see people fawning over those features on new Cornerstones and my 9 year old coach has them. Also the chassis build being all welded steel construction and the 10 airbag ride is pretty hard to beat. I see MHS has some used Dynasty's and one used Signature Series coach on their website. I'm in the car business and my dad had a saying that he would rather drive a used Cadillac than a new Chevy. I'm kinda that way too! JMO
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:08 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by pduggs View Post
We really like the CC Intrigue and Allure, but those lightly used and in great shape are priced between $150k and $250k...and this is a 10 year old coach!

This pricing seems very high to me. A new Allure in 2006 probably sold at around $300K and Intrigue less than $400k. Where is the huge depreciation many speak of? Are these high prices due to demand or what?
It does seem that well maintained used CC's are still in demand and command a good price. Our fully-optioned Allure (2007 with air leveling, big residential fridge, heated tile floors, HD TV's, 3 15K heat pumps, etc) had an MSRP of $469,000. I am sure the original owner got it for less than that. In 2013, we got it for right around $185,000 with new tires, new mattress and a Winegard Traveler sat dish thrown in (I had to install it but dealer gave us the dish). That price was well below NADA average retail at the time.
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Old 06-29-2016, 07:32 AM   #28
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To me another perk of a used luxury liner would be not having to deal with a diesel particulate filter (dpf) and diesel exhaust fluid (def). My coach was one of the last years to be able not to have those. The combination of the features that ours has and not having the dpf and def is why we bought ours 3 years ago. I'm amazed at the technology that our coach has on it like collision avoidance, ABS, traction control, and power blinds on all the front windows including the living area, keyless entry and power remote controlled locks on all the outside storage bay doors and on and on. I see people fawning over those features on new Cornerstones and my 9 year old coach has them. Also the chassis build being all welded steel construction and the 10 airbag ride is pretty hard to beat. I see MHS has some used Dynasty's and one used Signature Series coach on their website. I'm in the car business and my dad had a saying that he would rather drive a used Cadillac than a new Chevy. I'm kinda that way too! JMO
We just looked at a 2007 HR Navigator 43FST. It appeared to be in very good condition, but without maintenance records. I know this is a great well built coach and we are giving it serious consideration. If I can negotiate a good price, I might buy it.

You clearly like yours.
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