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Old 08-11-2013, 10:42 AM   #15
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It's called actuarial science, and full timers fall into a category the risk assessment guys want to stay away from.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:53 AM   #16
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Let be the devil's advocate for a moment. Can any of you imagine being a lending institution and financing say a $300k MH for a person with no real property or real address? They make a couple of payments than disappear. How do you locate them and repo the rig? Lot of space on the N American continent one can hide in the open. Thousands of RV parks, state parks, walmarts, truck stops and boonie areas. An older couple, driving a MH or towing a trailer, not breaking yany laws seldom draws the attention of law enforcement. I understand their caution
Besides that it is not a crime in the USA to not pay a bill or loan payment. If it was more then half the population would be behind bars. Should be as there is so many deadbeats running around the country. But if I was to retire and full time I would not want any loans of any kind. But I have seen people in their seventies buy new houses and get a 30 year loan. But like most people of any age with a 30 year loan, they are just renting from the bank. As long as you make the payments all is good.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:53 AM   #17
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Let be the devil's advocate for a moment. Can any of you imagine being a lending institution and financing say a $300k MH for a person with no real property or real address? They make a couple of payments than disappear. How do you locate them and repo the rig? Lot of space on the N American continent one can hide in the open. Thousands of RV parks, state parks, walmarts, truck stops and boonie areas. An older couple, driving a MH or towing a trailer, not breaking any laws seldom draws the attention of law enforcement. I understand their caution
It's call lo-jack.

But I understand your reasoning.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:55 AM   #18
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I think Doc hit the nail on the head. When the economy crashed we pulled into a park where a high end coach had just pulled out that morning, and the skip tracer was there grilling the manager on where the "deadbeat" was headed. Apparently the guy's financial world had fallen apart, and they were in the coach staying one step ahead of the repo man.

Not sure how you get your feet back under you if you are on the run & paying out constantly for gas and overnight camping fees. Oh well.
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:02 AM   #19
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It's possible! I seem ti recall some threads in the past that dealt with this - and there was a tie in to some laws that came into effect post Sep 11th attempting to limit or get a handle on folks that were off the grid. Initially there was speculation that a full timer loan could not be made. It seems they may have become more difficult to obtain but not impossible. Lenders can interpret regulations and tailor their practices as they see fit as long as they are within the law and not discriminating. Your relationship with a lending institution will not trump their rules. But a solid track record, high credit score and enough money down can still find you a loan. Essex - GS - credit unions are still open to it. Hopefully the rules and regs don't tighten to the point of no FT lending by anyone. That would just be
With a home (S&B) they normally stay in one place and slowly increase in value, at least the land if not the home itself. Skip out and the lender has some recourse, even if they still take a hit.

With a MH, which is a vehicle, as soon as it is driven off the lot it starts depreciating, and continues to do so. If the owner skips out.. even if the lender finds it, they will still take a rather huge hit.
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:22 AM   #20
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Think of the many folks who financed a motor home for twenty years and in a few years found themselves upside down in market value versus debt owed.

Depreciation in value exceeded the principle repayment.

Now picture yourself as a lender who made that loan.

With no other collateral, you have no security for recovery of your money should the debtor default.

Why would you want to loan money in that kind of deal?
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:38 AM   #21
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Dean- the economics of high LTV loans on RVs are no different today than before the crash. Say 80% LTV, new owners drive off lot & rig is worth face value of the loan more or less, except that is retail. The bank won't realize more than wholesale which should be ~70% of current retail, so the bank has an asset worth ~0.7 x 0.8 = 56% of sale price. That's -$24,000 per $100k of original sale that the bank is upside down on day 1 of the loan. Don't ask me how that's supposed to work.
God bless folks who work & pay their bills.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:11 PM   #22
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You can get a pretty good sense of the impact Reg Z changes from 2010 were having on RV lenders and dealers at the time here:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/SECRS/...95694932_1.pdf

Not sure how this Industry comment to the Fed worked out - but a little additional research could unlock it I'm sure. Not going to do the leg work now but it is still possible to get a fulltimer loan.

I agree that the economics of RV lending have not changed, post lending collapse. I will point out that RV lending of any kind did not play into the collapse. When Lehman Brothers was allowed to fail (rightly or wrongly) the dominos were set in motion.

I haven't looked at Essex in quite some time but last look they were doing FT loans. There have been some threads that suggested they looked for reasons not to make the loan, but that's true of any loan. Enough down - good credit rating - I believe it can be done. Lenders are still borrowing cheap and making spread and the economics can be made to work provided it remains legal. JMHO.
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:48 PM   #23
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It was my understanding a couple of years ago that the RV lending issue wasn't so much that the lenders didn't want to do it, but that the new regulations required them to maintain an escrow account for those with no fixed address. The escrow account was to take care of any taxes that might be owed, such as personal property taxes, etc. The lenders didn't want to have to keep up with the tax laws of every state, county, and city in the country to make sure that all the taxes were accounted for, so they decided to tighten up who they lent money to instead.
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Old 08-11-2013, 02:31 PM   #24
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^^^ that was one of the points RVDA made to the Fed especially as it concerned fulltimer loans. They argued that many fulltimers were domiciled in states like SD and TX where property and other taxes favored the fulltimer. Also that treating RV loans like home loans didn't make sense even if a small percentage were used as a primary residence. They are more like car loans, exempt from home constriction regulations and so on.

The RVDA letter above was well reasoned in my opinion and worth the read.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:05 PM   #25
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Seems the banks are finding another way to slit their own wrist once more.

Ken
I bet they have no idea how much business they will lose.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:39 PM   #26
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We sold our house 4 yrs ago and moved into a rental condo. With the full intentions of buying a RV and going full time. When the day came, we went to our bank and spoke with the branch vp and she said there was no problem with us not having a permanent address as long as we didn't reregister the RV in a different state. We have a P.O. box for an address and so far have had no problem. Seems there are a lot of financial businesses that won't do business with you (credit cards,etc)if you have only a P.O. box. to bad for them, since there are those that will.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:48 PM   #27
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Besides that it is not a crime in the USA to not pay a bill or loan payment. If it was more then half the population would be behind bars. Should be as there is so many deadbeats running around the country. But if I was to retire and full time I would not want any loans of any kind. But I have seen people in their seventies buy new houses and get a 30 year loan. But like most people of any age with a 30 year loan, they are just renting from the bank. As long as you make the payments all is good.
I prefer to think of it as owning the house/rv, but renting the money from the bank. If it's cheaper to rent their money than to use my own, it makes financial sense to do so.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:58 PM   #28
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I prefer to think of it as owning the house/rv, but renting the money from the bank. If it's cheaper to rent their money than to use my own, it makes financial sense to do so.
If you are in a position to take advantage of that option. I lost all that including an RV in a divorce so I might even buy a less expensive RV and customize it over time.
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