New tires on front-Older tires on rear

[Dakrism]

I know this subject has been talked about a lot but I would like some input from you guys about my recent purchase.
We found an 2003 Phaeton and my wife fell in love with it.I learned from this forum to look for certain things and when I checked the DOT date on the tires it was 2912 which I thought was excellent, except, now after making the deal I find the there are tires on the rear that have a DOT date of 1407.I feel less safe about these tires.

I asked the dealer about it and he said they took the vehicle to a tire service center in Greenfield IN when it was traded in and that dealer put new front tires on the coach and said the rear tires were ok with no weathering or checking,no bulges, or apparent problems and there was no need to change the rear tires.
I have made a deposit on the coach and I'm waiting on the money from my bank on a refy deal.The salesman called today and I asked about the tires and was he going to send me out on the road with 6 yr old tires and he was very offended and said those rear tires would last several years yet and he would have no problem taking his family to California on those tires.He says all I have read about 5 to 6 yrs being the life of a tire is internet garbage and untrue.
Do I have any real life examples out there willing to share??

Thanks,
Dan

[Barbaraok]

Walk away from the deal. There are others out there. Do you know how long the coach was sitting - that's the worst thing for any tires.

And now you know why it is important to check things like the age of all of the tires, etc., when shopping. BTW, it is not unusual for people to stagger the replacement, doing the steer tires at a shorter interval than the rear ones and we go 7 years on the rear tires - but sure wouldn't buy a coach knowing I would have to put rears on the next year.

Barb

[KSCRUDE]

I would make them replace the rear tires as well, or no deal. I would not trust the old tires. They will do it even at their cost as used motor homes are every where now, and they won't want to lose the sale. Just be firm and tell them how the cow ate the cabbage. You are in the drivers seat and they know it. If they don't comply grab your money and run!

[Steve Ownby]

I have a personal 7 year rule on tire life if no other event causes it to be less. Here is a copy of an experience posted to another forum several months ago. I got permission from the author to re- post it:


PLEASE, for your safety and that of your passengers, read this to
conclusion.

Recently, while on the freeway south of Jacksonville, FL, traveling in
the far right lane, on cruise control at 60 mph, I experienced a blowout
of a Goodyear G 670 tire on the right side steer axle.

Some important background information to help you evaluate and
understand the lead up to this catastrophe and I do mean catastrophe! I
am a former US Navy carrier based jet fighter pilot from the Vietnam War
era, retired 747 international airline pilot, former instructor of the
advanced motorcycle safety driving course and have never had a vehicle
accident of any kind in my life nor have I ever had a driving citation.
I am an extremely defensive driver and uncompromising when it comes to
safety and maintenance of my vehicles. Also spent many years sailing
blue water.

I have closely followed all the information posted on this forum for a
few years now and learned more than I ever knew before this forum, which
is a lot considering I've been full-timing for 24 years in a number of
coaches including 4 Monaco's. I have especially followed the discussions
regarding the G 670 because they came on my Windsor. I had all the
typical problems reported here so no need to go deeply into that now. A
large commercial tire dealer who knows all about, what can only be
described as defective G 670 tires, rotated the rivering and cupping
steer axle tires to the left side drive axle position a few years ago. I
then increased the front tire pressure to 115-120 lbs as recommended
here and from the dealer. The tires on the front wore without those
problems but did develop other abnormal wear patterns but were not cause
for concern, according to the dealer.

I am acutely aware of the tire life limits and know how to read the
manufacture date. I also had the tires inspected at least once per year
by the same dealer. After a recent inspection, he recommended replacing
all the tires this fall with Hankooks or other reputable tires as the
tire ages were 6 years. I used 303 Protectorant on the sidewalls
regularly; they had no cracks. I check pressures before every trip and
have a laser temperature gun that I use at all rest stops. I do not have
a tire pressure monitoring system.

When I've read previous reports of blowouts, I must confess I said to
myself that the drivers probably didn't check pressures as regularly as
I do nor did they take care of their tires as I do. Not a good
assumption on my part since I didn't have first hand knowledge of each
situation but was going on what I know and see most other owners doing
or better yet, not doing, to maintain their tires. Also, I've never had
a blowout on anything in my life so it probably wouldn't happen to me;
WRONG!

I have posted, on this forum, the proper procedure to follow in the
event of a tire blowout in a motor home or car and that is NOT to touch
the brake but step on the accelerator to maintain speed and control and
then gradually slow down. The pilot in me has me repeating to myself a
few times every time I drive, "Blowout, step on the accelerator,
step on the accelerator". I do this because I know the natural
response would be to step on the brake and that would be fatal as can be
seen on YouTube when a front tire was intentionally blown in a class A
coach demonstration.

One beautiful day recently at about 11:00 AM after driving only about an
hour and with my 13 year old grandson in the passenger seat, there was
what I can only describe as a massive explosion that sounded like a
hand-grenade going off. It was a metallic sound followed by a non-stop
VILOENT motion and before I could comprehend what was happening, we were
headed for the treeline. I could barely see because it was as if someone
was behind me with their hands on my shoulders shaking me so hard that I
could not focus. I was on cruise control and did remember to step on the
accelerator, however the shaking was so violent that I could not tell
where my foot was as it was being shaken every which-way.

By the time my mind caught up with what was happening, the coach had
move from the far right lane I was in, across the paved shoulder (about
a lane width) and onto the grass a half a coach width. I managed to stop
the diversion there and maintained this position while I slowly brought
it to a stop. I sat there for a few moments totally stunned by what had
happened!

The inside was a shambles! It broke the locks off the doors of the
refrigerator and most of the contents were on the floor. Many other
items in the coach relocated and/or broke or were damaged

The blowout took out the air lines to both airbags so the coach was way
down in the right front corner due to tire collapse and air bags
collapsing. It had skidded on the retractable step.

The unbelievably violent ride was, in many ways, as rough as a carrier
arrested landing but actually way more violent because of the up and
down motion of the coach as the blown tire went around and around.

Only a few months before I had decided to go with Coach-Net.
Fortunately, I was only about 15 miles south of Jacksonville, FL. They
sent out a truck from a national commercial tire chain with a Michelin
XZA2. The man who changed the tire showed me that it was not a sidewall
blowout; it was a tread separation. After replacing the tire, wheel was
undamaged, it was determined that the coach was not drivable so CN sent
out a wrecker. The driver said he could not do anything to move me
because of the collapsed airbags making the coach too low to get under
with a tow/lift bar. He looked at the broken air line and said he could
reconnect it, which he did. Started the engine and the bags aired up OK
so followed him to a repair facility. The next day I had Michelin's
installed all around through the FMCA program; $638 each as opposed to
$842 each retail.

When the tread separated, it impacted the wall in front of the tire,
which is the left sidewall of the entry steps inside the entry door. It
hit so hard that the entire step well area was shifted to the right, as
viewed from entering. The entire stairwell will have to be removed and
rebuilt.

The damage could have been much worse. I'm presently in Elkhart, IN at
Duncan RV Services waiting for the final estimate to be completed and
submitted to my insurance company, USAA. Preliminary estimate is I'll be
here for 5-6 weeks depending on how quickly Monaco ships parts. The
fiberglass sidewall surrounding the wheel area was destroyed and will
have to come from Monaco or Duncan will have to fabricate one.

Since the blowout, as I have been driving, I note all the many many
obstacles alongside the roadways we would have hit had it happened
elsewhere; concrete bridge supports, poles, embankments, etc. As it was,
if I had not stopped the coach from going further right only a few feet
more, we would have gone down an embankment and rolled over onto the
side and possibly hit the trees. What if I had been in a left lane with
traffic to my right. Would have taken them out for sure; how about
colliding with an 18 wheeler. At 60 mph, my grandson probably would
have been killed had this occurred in almost any other location. It
makes my blood run cold and I still have guilt feelings about what
could, so easily, have happened! It is something akin to PTSD and will
take some time to recover.

Knowing what I knew about the G 670, even though a dealer said they were
OK until the fall, I should NEVER have gone beyond 5 years at the max
and better yet replace them as soon as I was aware of the problem
because of this forum. It was an expensive lesson as it is but could
have been so much worse had my grandson been even slightly injured.

Now, the reason I took time to write all this. PLEASE, PLEASE learn from
my experience and if you have G 670's, no matter what age, replace them
with something else, anything else. Driving on them is gambling your
life and the life of your loved ones. Yes, there will be those who will
say they've never had a problem, etc, but the history of these tires and
my experience should be enough not to risk it. I could have said I never
had a problem either, that is until it happened to me. Remember, I did
all the right things that would have been acceptable with any other tire
brand. It was a failure that should not have occurred.

The tire service company told me they have responded to MANY G 670
failures; more than ALL other brands combined! They rarely had to
replace blown motor home tires other the Goodyear. They did sell other
brands I could have purchased but decided on the Michelin's because of
an unblemished reputation.

Final comment. I offer this as my experience and recommendation only. I
do not want to get into a back and forth with anyone who disagrees with
anything I've stated because I see so many times where information
offered by others here in good faith turns into an ugly exchange. I've
never understood why this happens, that is, the personal attacks. This
is one of the reasons I do not post often. Aren't we all on the
same team; Americans, coach owners, retired, parents, grandparents and
many veterans? Shouldn't we be helping each other and not tearing others
down? There is so much hate everywhere these days, especially on the
Internet where people can hide as opposed to being face-to-face. They
are cowards and would never have the courage to say those things to
someone's face. I just can't understand why any rational, intelligent
person would want to add to the hate.

If your experiences are different, by all means express them as I have
done. But lets stop the personal attacks I see so frequently here so
this forum always remains at is full potential for educating and helping
each other in a civil manner.

Gary K

06 Windsor

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[vsheetz]

Don't throw away the deal on a coach you otherwise want and like just over the tires - decide how big a thing it is to you and negotiate accordingly...

[Dakrism]

Steve-Thanks for the reply.Even though the tires on my prospective unit are not the Goodyear G 670s they are going on 6 yrs old and I have no idea how they have been inflated,cared for or used.I think I will insist the dealer replace these tires or no sale.
Thanks again this forum is invaluable to a new RV buyer.

[Pigman1]

I think your last post about how the tires are an unknown is your telling point. Also the mileage on the rig should be considered. If you can get to a good heavy duty tire guy and talk to him, ask him how LONG truck tires last that have been run and taken care of. We found that 7 years on a tire that has been run 10-20,000 miles a year is not a problem. The same tire run 3-5,000 miles a year is going to be well along in it's deterioration cycle. Thires need to be run to keep the semi liquid oils and components well distributed in the rubber. Also, sunlight causes more rapid drying of the rubber, especially the sidewalls, so being parked in Florida or Arizona is not helping tire life. Also exposure to ozone as in a welding area or shop causes major problems. Find a good heavy duty tire guy that's not trying to sell you something, have him inspect the tires and talk to him. Most will do it for free, but even spending a few bucks will be worth it to get an unbiased story. Then you can make a knowledgeable decision.

[ralphie]

I've been reading about tires on RV forums since day one. Specific evidence for the 5-6yr "myth," no. But, anecdotally, most people report they get 5-6yrs out of their tires, except for the FW'ers who might get 3-5yrs from ST tires. With MHs it seems like the tire mfgr. doesn't matter. With ST tires it seems like the cheap China-made tires blow out first. I became a believer when the Michelins on my Class A started to blow at six years.

Now, having said the foregoing, many people report getting 10 or even 12 years out of MH tires. I don't know why. The comparison to commercial trucks using the same tires doesn't wash with me. I think it has more to do with lack of use when it comes to MHs. Where a typical commercial truck may be driven nearly every day and the tread will wear out well before the carcass, a MH may be driven occasionally and for short periods and the tire may blow well before the tread wears out. That appears to be because the rubber has dried out, cracks start, and ultimately they overheat and fail, always at the worst possible moment.

So, what's the bottom line for you? Only you can decide if the rear tires are a big enough issue for you to squash the deal. It really doesn't matter, IMHO, that the dealer is trying to dissuade you from believing the tire "myth." They all lie, LOL.

[R2Home]

If the MH is one that otherwise you really like, see about cutting a deal to reduce the price. If they will then you will have the chance to purchase tires that YOU want.
How much will you be driving this MH? Even 6-7 year old tires might be OK for another year. As has already been stated how were the tires cared for during the time they have been in service!

[Mr_D]

First, there is no set time for a tire to "expire". It depends on how it was treated and whether driven often enough.
We went over 8 years on our Michelins with no trouble and I know for certain that they were run thousands of miles overloaded on the fronts. We owned the rig for a couple of years before I became concerned about tire loading. The front tires should have had 120 psi and I was running them at 100. Still no problems and I ran them for years after that.
Personally I'd do as others have posted, negotiate a price or walk. If you really want it and they won't lower the price then it's up to you whether replacing the tires in a couple years is worth it or not. Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

[max49]

The first post sounded like an infomercial. I would definitly not agree with this statement " They did sell other
brands I could have purchased but decided on the Michelin's because of
an unblemished reputation."
I've had tread separations on Michelins where I could stick my hand in, cracking galore, and seen some blowouts. All tires can fail but Michelin is one of the most expensive and they wrote the book on how 'it's your fault' when it fails under warranty.

[Dakrism]

Just to update this issue---I asked for new tires on the rear in an email to the salesman.He has responded and the general manager of the dealership has responded and both are telling me no deal on them replacing the 4 rear tires.
I said no deal if they were not replaced and I would not drive it off the lot.Unforunately I gave them a $5000 deposit when we signed the deal and they are casting doubt on my ability to recover the deposit money.
I know all this should have been avoided prior to agreeing on a price but I cant believe the dealer does not have enough profit to put 4 tires on the unit. He says the deal is so close on the profit margin they will lose money and he is calling the owner to see what to do.
My wife wants me to eat the tires and quit bitching but I really want newer tires to feel completely safe.
The GM offered to split the cost of 4 new tires and yesterday the salesman offered me $1000 to complete the deal.
I told the GM that we should all 3 contribute 1/3 to the cost of 4 new tires and he is taking that under advisement and contacting the owner.
I guess we will know soon if I need an attorney or we are completing the deal.
My regret now is the annimosity I feel has developed between the salesman and myself and the fact I still need to deal with this dealership during the delivery inspection and training on how to use the vehicle.
The reluctance to replace the tires and their insistence that the tires were"perfectly" safe has given me pause as to their veracity and reliability on other issues.
Once again thanks for the comments.It seems like the concensus is that the tires should be replaced.A couple people said they were ok with the older tires but most thought they should go!

[deandec]

So, you might risk the $5,000 deposit for $2,000 worth of rear tires?

The dealer might agree to replace the tires, but you might get some unknown brand of tire that you really did not want (Goldstar vs Bridgestone).

Part of the problem was that you did not check all the tires before you made the deal.

So, make the best dollar adjustment deal you can. Buy the coach as is after a more careful pre-delivery inspection. Then buy the tires of your choice.

A blow out on the rear is probably not imminent and not nearly as dangerous as one on the steer tires.

[Dakrism]

Ok it is a done deal! The owner Mr. Eckstein called me and we agreed to split the cost of 4 new tires.He still thinks the 5.5 yr old tires are fine and that the 5 yr "myth" is all promumgated by the tire manafacturers and that the rear tires could be fine for 5 more years. We agreed to disagree on the tires and split the cost.He seems like a very good guy and he did offer me my deposit back if I insisted and seemed to very concerned that I was happy with his dealership.
I will feel better leaving on 6 new tires!!