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Old 10-15-2015, 11:11 AM   #29
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I have a new 2016 Winnebago 33C with a 2016 Ford F-53 chassis. I ordered our new coach from Winnebago and we waited four months for Winnebago to build our new coach. When it arrived at the dealership I had them install a Safe-T-Plus steering damper, a trac bar, and a Roadmaster sway bar.

The day we picked up our new coach there were 50 mph plus side winds. I barely noticed the winds. I don't feel the bow waves of trucks when they pass.

I haven't had a chance to weigh our new coach fully loaded yet so that I can adjust tire pressure according to load charts. Tire pressure is set at the recommended pressure. The suggested pressure will support the heaviest load that the chassis is designed to carry.

Nor have I had a chance to have an alignment as the operator's manual suggests.

As for the difference between gas and diesel I cannot compare as I have never driven a diesel coach. Our previous coach was a 2005 Ford F-53 chassis. In ten years we put 40K miles on that coach. My thinking is that I needed to drive a lot more miles than 40K in ten years to justify a diesel coach. Safe travels. JD.
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dezolen View Post
LOL you only had GM engine gassers. Too bad you did not try a new Ford powered gasser. I would not trade my 2013 gasser for a 2000 DP with dusty rose, brass fittings, crt tube TV's. What only 370hp? The new DP's are now 500 hp plus. I have read on these forums one must have a tag axle dp for the ultimate handling and luxury ride as the single rear axles don't cut it. All kidding aside these forums are getting to be gas vs dp. Guess one must justify 2x the outlay somehow.
One of the gassers I owned had a V10 Ford and I listened to it scream going up hills until I sold it. Not even in the same zip code power wise as the 8.1 liter GM (all kidding aside!!). No gasser motor will ever beat the diesel motor performance for a motor home regardless of the hp.
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Candy Girl View Post
I encourage you to join the RV Consumer group. It is a great organization that rates RVs. I think what you experienced could be because of the wheelbase to total length of coach ratio. I joined when I bought my Dutch Star 16 years ago and have recently joined again because I am thinking of replacing it. Lots of great information!
In most cases they never even look at the RV's they rate, let alone drive them.
Doesn't make me want to even think about paying for their opinions.
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Old 10-15-2015, 01:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Linda View Post
No, it is NOT torque that gets you up a hill. It is HORSEPOWER.

Diesels make lots of torque at low RPM because that's the nature of a large Diesel engine. But a 362 HP V-10 Ford will get a coach up a grade just as fast as a 360 HP diesel, provided they weigh the same, of course. The difference is that the gas engine has to spin at 4,000 RPM to make that HP while the diesel does it at 2,000 RPM.

If the RPM is lower but the HP is the same, the torque of the diesel has to be higher in order to make that same HP at a lower RPM. But HP is HP no matter what kind of engine makes it.


2006 Mandalay 40E, Cummins ISL 400 HP
HP is merely calculated from torque and rpm. The formula was derived and first used to show mine owners how much work (Horse Power) the new fangled engines could do to replace real horses.
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Old 10-15-2015, 01:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowboat View Post
I have a new 2016 Winnebago 33C with a 2016 Ford F-53 chassis. I ordered our new coach from Winnebago and we waited four months for Winnebago to build our new coach. When it arrived at the dealership I had them install a Safe-T-Plus steering damper, a trac bar, and a Roadmaster sway bar.

The day we picked up our new coach there were 50 mph plus side winds. I barely noticed the winds. I don't feel the bow waves of trucks when they pass.
So, you had all that extra steering enhancement done without ever driving the unit?
I think I'd have bought a different rig in that case.
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:37 PM   #34
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Mr. D,
In a prefect world Ford would/should install some of the STUFF needed to achieve a better F-53 chassis ride. Presently they do not. And most of us informed buyers also know not to hold our breathes until they do.

Many of us don't want a DP for what ever the reason: $$$$$$$, maintenance costs or fuel prices etc. We wanted a new RV. So did YB. We did not want a DP. If we want a new gas RV we have only one chassis choice Ford. YB did his homework and knew what he needed to achieve a better ride so he had them install it in his coach. Maybe that was figured into his cost (that's his business). When we order our coach in 2013 I would have done the same had I been as well informed as YB. I did spend a whopping $2,000 to improve the ride/handling and we are happy.

We all know a DP is more costly to buy, service & maintain. Repairs can also be very expensive when they occur. So because life is about choices YB made his and we made ours. I'm happy and it sure sounds like Yellowboat is also.

I really do wish that Ford or the RV dealers/manufacturers would offer an air ride and some enhancements to their F-53 chassis but they don't. So we research, buy and have a great time making upgrades and changes.

TeJay
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:12 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Mr. D,
In a prefect world Ford would/should install some of the STUFF needed to achieve a better F-53 chassis ride. Presently they do not. And most of us informed buyers also know not to hold our breathes until they do.

Many of us don't want a DP for what ever the reason: $$$$$$$, maintenance costs or fuel prices etc. We wanted a new RV. So did YB. We did not want a DP. If we want a new gas RV we have only one chassis choice Ford. YB did his homework and knew what he needed to achieve a better ride so he had them install it in his coach. Maybe that was figured into his cost (that's his business). When we order our coach in 2013 I would have done the same had I been as well informed as YB. I did spend a whopping $2,000 to improve the ride/handling and we are happy.

We all know a DP is more costly to buy, service & maintain. Repairs can also be very expensive when they occur. So because life is about choices YB made his and we made ours. I'm happy and it sure sounds like Yellowboat is also.

I really do wish that Ford or the RV dealers/manufacturers would offer an air ride and some enhancements to their F-53 chassis but they don't. So we research, buy and have a great time making upgrades and changes.

TeJay
Here here TeJay---- I just put front and rear Roadmaster sway bars and a roadmaster steering stabilizer on my new 2016 Bounder. I feel it was a well spent $1500 to improve the ride and provide a safer handling coach; well under the $50K more, I would have spent on a DP of comparable quality and conveniences. While i will never match the torque and pulling power of a
diesel I knew that when I decided on a Gas coach and am very happy with my coach and decision. I still enjoy looking at the big DP's and the drivers area, ALL THOSE BUTTONS wow LOL
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:17 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Linda View Post
No, it is NOT torque that gets you up a hill. It is HORSEPOWER.
You misunderstood my statement. I was trying to point out that, in a large, heavy RV, the torque of the engine is more important, generally, than the HP number. HP is a function of RPM. Vehicle speed and/or acceleration are a factor of gearing and lots of other variables. Torque MOVES stuff. HP determines only how FAST it moves. Few people take their Monaco's and Prevost's through the traps at Englishtown.

Thus, the preponderance of big-block Chevys in OTR semis.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:51 PM   #37
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Hello all. New to RV ownership I purchased a 1999 Winnebago Adventurer with a 454 Chevy that has 45,000 miles. Drives straight and smooth. I have driven rental junk and pushers. Diesels are different beast compared to gas. For me it all comes down to money. In a perfect world I would have the best of everything but I am a civil servant for NYC and live on Long Island. Everything comes down to money. For me I weekend trip mostly with a 2 or 3 week trip planned for next summer. I have tent camped and boated for the past 25 years or so. I could not afford to buy a pusher or afford the maintenance. I will try and do all the maintenance and repairs myself on the gas coach. This makes it affordable for me and I am loving it so far. Its all about application for each individual. I love driving my gasser down the road I am like a kid in a tonka toy. When you are parked at a camp ground diesel, gas does not matter. What ever you drive enjoy the journey.
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Old 10-15-2015, 07:12 PM   #38
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vstanz,
Well stated. If you every have issues with the unit that needs some answers or directions a bit over your comfort level you know where you can get some assistance. Please don't hesitate to ask. There's a world of talent, knowledge and a big willingness to help on these forums.

My Sisters second husband was a Cop/Detective from Long Island long before she met him. He passed away a few years ago but i saw pictures St Pat's parades and other events from his time on the force.

Dennis Dean, I'm very jealous of you and YB. You've got the new Ford 6-speed transmission. Maybe you won't need the 5-Star TUNE.

TeJay
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Old 10-15-2015, 07:38 PM   #39
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TeJay - as always you were succient and on point. Great points. I feel very comfortable with virtually any automotive issue on my coach and almost any household issue. Most of that comfort has come from information I have gathered from forums and folks like TeJay. Mind you, I have a strong tinker and automotive background but the folks here have helped make me comfortable.

As you've noticed the diesel vs gasser touches off a real firefight. I enjoy reading the debate but really am glad for the shared knowledge.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:48 PM   #40
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We purchased a 15 Winnebago Vista 35F in the spring and used it 6-7 times. I race MX and we pulled my 16' trailer 3 of those times and the Vista pulled the trailer fine except up the long hills where it would drop down to 45mph and would be revving too high for my liking. It wandered all over the road with or without the trailer. I checked and reset the tire pressures and installed a Super steer rear trac bar. Both mods helped but it still had handling issues. My wife would never leave the passenger seat until we arrived at our destination. We live in Ma and plan on traveling to Fort Benning in GA to see our son who is in the Army and then to Florida to see my mom and sister who live there and then to CA to see one of my other sons who lives there and we both agreed that we didn't want to doing that type of traveling in the Vista so we traded it on for a new 15 Itasca Solei 36G DP and it was the best trade ever. I'm not trying to justify the money difference here either because you just can't compare the 2 coaches and you can't put a price on piece of mind either. The DP drives like a car in comparison, goes straight as an arrow down the highway and pulls my trailer like it's not there. It only downshifts from 6th to 5th on the hills and it does it super smooth and still goes an 60-65mph uphill & the Vista would downshift very hard and for some reason would go right from 5th to 3rd and it would lose momentum fast on the hills. The Vista was loud and had a rough ride. The Solei is super quiet and has a very smooth ride and is very easy to drive. You can drive it with one hand and have a sandwich in the other :-) We've used the new DP coach 5-6 times and in our humble it was worth every penny. It's a piece of mind thing and my wife just was very uncomfortable each time we took the Vista out (until we got there) and she loves the new coach and will actually leave her seat and make a sandwich or go to the bathroom or whatever. The DP coach handles awesome and is just a pleasure to drive. We've had two 15 coaches this year and one was a gasser and the new one is diesel pusher so I feel that it's fair comparison because they were both brand new so take it for what it's worth... :-)
We have the same road wander issue along with tail wag on our 2014 Newmar Bay Star 2903.We purchased new in January, took a trip from FL to NC to NY in June, wandered, but my husband handled. We drove across I-90 in September from NY to Lake Erie, PA and I was afraid for my life, wind was about 15-18mph and the darn thing was like a boat at sea. I wouldn't get up either! From there we went south west to South Bend, not bad, still some wander, but manageable. Next to NASHVILLE, all good. Last leg was from Nashville to Murphy, NC where we store at our mountain cabin. We took I-40 then I-75 to the back roads through the Cumberland Gap. These mountain roads are curvy and some grades but nothing like we planned to do next summer - three months from NC to Black Hills SD, Montana, Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, Lake Mead, Zion, Bryce Canyon, Breckenridge, etc. I'm now dead set against it. The trip through Smokies was hell, constant road wander several times into rumble strips to the point my hubby thought coach was going to lay down on its side as he couldn't get control back fast enough,. He has driven NYC buses, fire trucks as a vollie, large construction trucks, police vehicles, has had much training in all of these and he says nothing he has ever driven was as unstable as this coach. I want to sell it, I'm wondering how bad of a hit you took on trading your 2015 gasser in for a 2015 DP, was it heart stopping? We are looking at many options, but for me - one is NOT keeping THIS motorhome, I am not at all comfortable riding in it, especially after hearing my normally very confident, good driver hubby voice his concerns. We have double checked tire pressure, weight distribution, carry no water or waste in tanks, still handling is terrible. This was our dream for many years, now it is my nightmare.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:54 PM   #41
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Horsepower and torque are mathematically related-- to torque

Horsepower = torque x RPM / 5252. This means torque and horsepower are always equal at 5252 rpm. But- Ain't no diesel pusher ever going to see 5252 RPM!

Torque is defined as a force around a given point, applied at a radius from that point. Note that a unit of TORQUE is one pound-foot (often misstated), while a unit of WORK is one foot-pound.

Power is the measure of how much work can be done in a specified time. 1 horsepower = 33,000 foot pounds per minute.

So yes, a 365 HP diesel and a 365 HP gasser will do the exact same work at the respective RPMs the HP is made. Likewise, a 700 pound-foot diesel will do the same work as a 700 pound-foot gasser... oh wait, they only make 460 pound-feet of torque...

Torque GETS you moving. Horsepower KEEPS you moving. So, while the end result of 365 horses is the same, ie keeping a 30,000# RV moving X miles per hour on flat land and equal wind conditions, it all goes south for the gasser when that 30mph headwind and 4 grade effectively raise the weight of the RV, THAT'S when those extra 240 pound-feet of torque comes into play.

Out on the Bonneville salt flats, an equal weight & shaped RV with 365 horses should go the same speed, regardless of the torque. Out in the real world... It's all in the math!
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:55 PM   #42
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You misunderstood my statement. I was trying to point out that, in a large, heavy RV, the torque of the engine is more important, generally, than the HP number. HP is a function of RPM. Vehicle speed and/or acceleration are a factor of gearing and lots of other variables. Torque MOVES stuff. HP determines only how FAST it moves. Few people take their Monaco's and Prevost's through the traps at Englishtown.

Thus, the preponderance of big-block Chevys in OTR semis.
HP is a function of BOTH torque and RPM. No torque, no HP, no RPM, no HP either.
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