Newbie Narrowing the List

[BigG-633]

Thanks for all the replies to my other thread "Newbie Diving in for the First Time". I've learned a LOT! I have found two (2) DPs within 30 miles of me and have walked-thru both. Both are from seemingly reputable dealers.

Both are about the same price and have:
- Freightliner chassis
- 1-1/2 bath
- Identical GVWR and GAWRs
- Stacked W/Ds
- HD sats
- 8k Onan generators
- Central vacs

One is a Tiffin Phaeton (older) and the other a Fleetwood Expedition (newer). I think the Phaeton may have a slight edge in quality materials, but hard to say (not being able to see them side-by-side). The Phaeton, or Tiffins in general, seem to rank higher in the court of public opinion. I think the Expedition has some upgrades that rival or exceed the Phaeton (e.g.; porcelain tile floors and a fireplace). TVs are newer on the Expedition. The Phaeton has instant-on hot water (but not the AquaHot system), while the Expedition has a 10-gal hot water tank. The Phaeton fridge seems nicer with a bottom drawer freezer and also has a dishwasher. Here are some more specs:

Year:
Ph: 2012
Ex: 2015
Asking Price:
Ph: $179,400 (~$15K higher than NADA avg retail base price without options)
Ex: $185,000 ($300 less than NADA avg retail base price without options)
Miles:
Ph: 13,000
Ex: 18,000
HP/Torque:
Ph: 380 / 1050
Ex: 360 / 800
Length:
Ph: 40.5'
Ex: 38.5'
Slides:
Ph: 4
Ex: 3
Master Bed:
Ph: King with air adjustable firmness (similar to Sleep Number, but not same make)
Ex: King with electric adjustable slant/incline

Again, I would appreciate opinions and any information you may have on financing (i.e. how the banks would look at each), value (bang for the buck), and thoughts about buying the warranties. We haven't gotten into the negotiations yet, so I don't know what the warranty will cost. At another dealer, while checking out a Thor Palazzo that has been crossed off the list, I was told that warranties can range from $6k to $20K.

This is a great forum and I'm excited about joining your ranks soon.

Greg

[Quincy]

Originally Posted by BigG-633

Thanks for all the replies to my other thread "Newbie Diving in for the First Time". I learned a LOT! I have found two (2) DPs within 30 miles and have walked-thru both. Both are from seemingly reputable dealers. Both are about the same price. Both are 1-1/2 bath. Both have identical GVWR and GAWRs. Both have stacked W/Ds and HD sats. One is a Phaeton (older) and the other an Expedition (newer). I think the Phaeton may have a slight edge in quality materials, but hard to say (not being able to see them side-by-side). I think the Expedition has some upgrades that rival the Phaeton (e.g.; tile floors and fireplace). TVs are newer on the Expedition. The Phaeton has instant-on hot water (but not the AquaHot system), while the Expedition has a 10-gal hot water tank. Both have 8kw Onan generators. The Phaeton fridge seems nicer with a bottom drawer freezer and also has a dishwasher. Both have central vacs. Here are some more specs:

Year:
Ph: 2012
Ex: 2015
Asking Price:
Ph: $179,400 (~$15K higher than NADA avg retail base price without options)
Ex: $185,000 ($300 less than NADA avg retail base price without options)
Miles:
Ph: 13,000
Ex: 18,000
HP/Torque:
Ph: 380 / 1050
Ex: 360 / 800
Length:
Ph: 40.5'
Ex: 38.5'

Again, I would appreciate opinions and any information you may have on financing (i.e. how the banks would look at each), value (bang for the buck), and thoughts about buying the warranties. We haven't gotten into the negotiations yet, so I don't know what the warranty will cost. At another dealer, while checking out a Thor Palazzo that has been crossed off the list, I was told that warranties can range from $6k to $20K.

This is a great forum and I'm excited about joining your ranks soon.

Greg

Bet you did not think you would get a reply this fast?

As far as the rigs go I would give the edge to the Phaeton mainly because Tiffin is famous for taking care of his customers even if they were not the first owners of the rig. I can personally attest to this as we were at Tiffins facility before he had the campground and when the Father ran the company. He repaired a friends camper even though it was several years old and second hand without charging for the work or materials. We were hooked up to the row of six campsites right next to the RR tracks.

As far as extended warranties are concerned, I think you will find the general opinion of this forum is that one is probably not worth what it costs. I would add that because the coach is a few years old the need is even less for an extended warranty. All the early failures, if there were any, have been taken care of and that means you are even less likely to need it. It would take more that one or two major repairs to make that investment back, which is unlikely.

You will get a lot of advice since your questions are right on for highly discussed topics so fasten your seat belt.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[BigG-633]

Thanks, Quincy. And you're right, didn't expect something this quick. You're obviously an early riser like me. I have read and heard a lot about Tiffin's dedication to customers and quality. Also, I never buy an extended warranty on anything else, but can "feel" the pitch coming.

[momdoc]

I too would weigh in on the side of the Tiffin. I think reliability is a key factor.

[rockriver]

couple of suggestions.
call wholesale warranty company and ask for a quote on both units. (that may be wrong name but i think they advertise here)

consider the dealership. their service department. etc.

see if the prior owners will talk with you. if so, call them. ask about prior repairs, warranty claims, who did the work, any info you can get.

check nada rv to get a hint as to the accuracy of pricing.

if you still can't decide. call one dealer and offer 150 (or whatever number you decide)
listen to their comments.. you may get a counter offer. then call the other dealer and offer the exact same money. then wait a few days. (they may call you and take you up on the offer. after waiting a few days. go up 5 grand and repeat until bingo!

[BigG-633]

Thanks Momdoc. Enjoy the new Allegro RED!

[BigG-633]

Thanks, Rockriver. I'll look into the warranty quotes. I had not considered getting it independently, although it's against my grain to typically opt for warranties. This would give a check of the dealer. It will take some work to determine the previous owners, but I would think that a reputable dealer wouldn't mind sharing that info. I like your negotiation skill

[David3811]

Tough decision. But...do I have this right? The Tiffin is less expensive, less miles, bigger motor, longer, and 4 slides instead of 3. And you believe the Tiffin gets better marks in the quality column. I'd go with the Tiffin, and not just because I've had two of them. I'd ask them what their "I'm ready to buy it today" price would be, and if they want you to make an offer first, start in the $160K range. You can justify that by telling them it's going to need new tires right off the bat. (yeah, the mileage is low but they're getting old). I wouldn't push too hard in the negotiations, you're getting into the RV buying season and good used MHs don't last long.

I'd stay away from the warranties. There are a lot of repairs you can do yourself, and the annual price of the warranty covers a lot of other stuff.

[RVPioneer]

The Tiffin is the better choice. In your price range you should be able to find an Allegro Bus on the new chassis they went to around 2010. It's head and shoulders above the Freightliner and better than most others.

I would reject any extended warranty from the dealer. It may be worth considering an Extended Service Plan from any number of independent companies. They do not cover routine maintenance or wear and tear items. They cover components and appliances that fail or need repairs. Ours costs about $1200/year. The first year it covered a $1600 AC unit. You will have problems with any brand of coach, new or used. It doesn't take much to get into the thousands when something goes wrong.

I don't own a Tiffin, but did I mention the Allegro Bus on the Powerglide chassis?

[2 Stroker]

I'm with RVPioneer, I would look at the Allegro Bus. You get a lot more coach for your dollar. You will also get the side radiator for me it was a must have. I like to open the back and see the motor not just a radiator and to change a belt takes me about 2 min. Here is one just to look at, good looking coach.
https://www.maplegroverv.com/sales/p...erglide-43qgp/
2 stroker

[mricet1005]

I'm biased since I own a 2013 Phaeton 40QBH and love it. Have not had any major issues. I did buy an ESP from the dealer but was able to negotiate the price down. I have used it a couple times but haven't recouped cost. Being a newbie bought it for peace of mind.

The Allegro Bus would be a nice upgrade but would have to go back several years for the same $.

I don't have any experience with Fleetwood so cannot really compare.

Good luck!

[wb5ldn]

Hi Greg, As another option, here is a Country Coach that might meet your needs, (http://www.irv2.com/rvclassifieds/sh...27s-leap&cat=4). Financing and warranty are available.

[BigG-633]

Thanks for sharing everybody. The reason I looked at, and am considering, the Fleetwood is due to the 3 year age difference. If I'm reading between the lines correctly, it sounds like the general consensus is that over the next 5 years when the Phaeton is 11 years old and the Expedition is 8 years old, the higher quality Phaeton will likely:
- Have cost less to maintain over that period, and
- Have a higher resell value at the end of that period
Is that correct?

Big thanks on the feedback about the warranty. Sounds like the dealer warranty is definitely out. I might take a look at some of the major replacement stuff in the aftermarket, but those types of things are not in my DNA.

Also, I did look at the Allegro Bus. I've found a 2009 that has the PowerGlide, and is it's relatively close so that I can go check it out. I had not considered the AB originally because I started out looking in the '14-'16 range and the Bus was way out of my price range. It looks like I could go up to around 2011 in the Bus.

Again, thanks. Wonderful and valuable feedback.

[veraken]

Not to muddy the waters, but take a look at this which was recently posted.

Well Equipped & Maintained, 1-Owner Diesel Pusher for Sale - RVgeeks

https://wheelingit.us/2018/02/08/our...q-is-for-sale/