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Old 08-28-2013, 08:28 AM   #15
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Our 2002 DSDP has never been stored inside. We live in WA and there is NO delamination. Why? Because Newmar walls are NOT "laminated".
As to quiet...we can't hear it rain unless it's a hard rain.

Obviously Stan's opinion is a product of false advertising.
The entire wall "assembly" is not laminated as most manufacturers do, BUT some of its components ARE. The luan "ply" is laminated (glued) to the back side of the fiberglass outer skin which is either gelcoated or painted.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:29 AM   #16
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Comparing my previous Winnebago Adventurer to my Newmar DSDP...Hands down the DSDP is much quieter and easier to keep warm or cool. Not even a fair fight.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgray View Post
. The luan "ply" is laminated (glued) to the back side of the fiberglass outer skin which is either gelcoated or painted.
Interesting videos comparing Azdel, now being used by over 20 RV manufacturers instead of the the cheap luan alternative used by Newmar.

EverGreen Ever-Lite Compositek Construction Test - YouTube

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Old 08-28-2013, 12:39 PM   #18
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We live in WA and there is NO delamination. Why? Because Newmar walls are NOT "laminated".

Obviously Stan's opinion is a product of false advertising.
Okay . . . let's just say the luan is glued to the fiberglass gelcoat wall. When the luan disintegrates into a pile of wet moldy rotting wood chips, some of us call that delamination; but we can just call it unglued if you wish. The results are same.

Delamination in RVs is a thing of the past, except for products from the few remaining manufacturers who are still living in the past, using obsolete construction methods and inferior materials from the past.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:32 PM   #19
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Stan,

I certainly understand your point, however, the video showed a wood laminated wall that had been underwater for over 10 months. If I have any RV that has been under water for ten months then I have a whole bunch of other problems.

I am not aware of any delamination problems with either Newmar or Entegra. I know there are other manufacturers who have had some severe issues with delamination, but not the two who use the hung wall construction.

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Old 08-28-2013, 01:37 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by edgray View Post
The entire wall "assembly" is not laminated as most manufacturers do, BUT some of its components ARE. The luan "ply" is laminated (glued) to the back side of the fiberglass outer skin which is either gelcoated or painted.
But you still will not get "delamination" in a Newmar wall.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:43 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Stan.Birch View Post
Delamination in RVs is a thing of the past, except for products from the few remaining manufacturers who are still living in the past, using obsolete construction methods and inferior materials from the past.
I run a Newmar DP specific "chat site" site, NOT ONE person (out of 1700+ registered users) has reported any structural problems in a Newmar product that comes from the wall "delaminating" nor the backing disintegrating. Nor have there been any that I know of posted on the IRV site here.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:11 PM   #22
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Stan seems to be on a mission to solve a problem that doesn't exist with Newmar motor homes. Someone at Newmar must have peed in his Cheerios.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:11 PM   #23
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I certainly understand your point, however, the video showed a wood laminated wall that had been underwater for over 10 months. If I have any RV that has been under water for ten months then I have a whole bunch of other problems.
No, it wasn't submerged in water; the test pieces were sitting a in about a 1/4" of water. That's all it takes for luan to wick up the water and spread throughout the entire sheet of luan.

Once you get a water leak into a luan sidewall, the luan never dries out; it remains continuously wet, facilitating the disintegration, rot, mold and mildew.

Nothwithstanding . . . Azdel material in the same environment was completely uneffected by the water.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:22 PM   #24
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But you still will not get "delamination" in a Newmar wall.
Where did you get this information? Certanly not from Newmar. If is was true, then you would think that Newmar would at least mention this as a great selling feature. But Newmar makes no such claims.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:32 PM   #25
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Somewhere I have a photo of the exterior wall of a Dutch Star being built. It was the fiberglass batting, similar to that used in homes, that convinced me to take what appeared to be an otherwise great motorhome off my short list. I had two concerns. One, the batting in the wall of a home can, over time, slide down inside the wall and leave the upper portion uninsulated. What about in a wall being driven over expansion strips and potholes? Second, sometime in the life of an RV it's going to leak. That stuff will act like a sponge and just soak it up and hide the problem until some real damage is done.

The "hung wall" may be OK for your house, but I thought it could be just another potential problem I could avoid by going elsewhere.

Still think the Dutch Star is a good value for the money though. It was the least expensive coach on our short list.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:43 PM   #26
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This seems to me to be much ado about nothing. I don't see that any of the current RV manufacturers have a delamination problem unless there is actual water intrusion in the walls (a leak, in other words). Driving around in a damp climate doesn't cause walls to fall apart, at any rate. My 2004 American Tradition with its "obsolete construction techniques and inferior materials" seems to be holding up just fine, thank you, and it has lived in Florida all its life, except for the time spent on Maine's not-so-dry seacoast.

Newmars may well be quieter and warmer than many other brands - I don't own one and can't comment. Some friends own them and none have complained about delamination, though.
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:40 PM   #27
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No, it wasn't submerged in water; the test pieces were sitting a in about a 1/4" of water. That's all it takes for luan to wick up the water and spread throughout the entire sheet of luan.

Once you get a water leak into a luan sidewall, the luan never dries out; it remains continuously wet, facilitating the disintegration, rot, mold and mildew.

Nothwithstanding . . . Azdel material in the same environment was completely uneffected by the water.
Of course not. Put a piece of plastic in water and It will NOT be affected ... but that does not mean it is the best material to use in any particular phase of construction. The OSB used throughout will also disintegrate in water, but is still the best product for the task.

You started out in this thread stating "Delamination due to luan is probably the single most common reason for reduced RV lifespan." That is a pretty big claim ... I was wondering exactly which authority or report or article are you quoting? or is that just your own opinion?

Then you went on to state: "...The only way to avoid delamination, is to go with an RV from one of the many manufacturers that that have now abandoned luan in favour Azdel..."

I get it that you're excited about this stuff ... but I have been through their websites and I can only find where they list TWO Class A manufacturers using it - Coachmen and Winnebago - and even then they don't state WHERE it is used - in fact the corporate site states Typical applications include vehicle interior substrates (headliners, parcel shelves, etc.) and gives many example vehicles ... all using it on the interior of the vehicle.

Even if this plastic IS better to prevent "delamination" ... if a manufacturer is not having a problem with "delamination", it is not exactly a good business decision to spend more money when the current materials are working just fine.

I would suggest if you are excited about something new like this, you come here and talk about its' good qualities WITHOUT attacking highly respected manufacturers over non-existent problems.

Just sayin' ...
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:56 PM   #28
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Stan seems to be on a mission to solve a problem that doesn't exist with Newmar motor homes. Someone at Newmar must have peed in his Cheerios.
What seems to be may merely be an illusion; not to mention, when it comes to guessing, you should probably stay away from poker.

The reality is, that we are currently working on the options list for the purchase of a new Newmar, although what I have learned about luan -vs- Adzel, has given me reason to pause and re-think.

The only reason I have to purchase a new rig, is that the delaminated luan walls are about to fall off! Everything else in the rig is in great shape, with well cared for mechanical aspects, and an interior that looks like new, luan is the disease that killed our rig. We live in a lower end neighbourhood where we don't see many high-end rigs like Newmars. Most of the rigs down in our end of town are Winnebagos. They are a lot like ours, with anything over five years old bulging with major luan delamination.

While it might be unfair to compare Newmar with the kind of low end "quality?" offerred by Winnebago, the potential for disaster still exists as long as Newmar continues to use luan.

My disasterous experience with luan, tells me that the idea of plunking 5 figures down on a new luan-based rig, doesn't make any sense whatsoever!

How does the saying go:

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it!

This will probably be our last rig; and I don't want to repeat the same mistake that 70 years of experience have taught me to avoid.
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