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Old 01-27-2013, 12:58 PM   #1
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Nitrogen in tires?

I've read a lot lately about claims regarding filling the MH tires with nitrogen. Some say the tires run cooler. That they lose less air (something about the molecules being larger so they don't seep thru the sidewalls etc), that they help the tire last longer, even that they improve the MH ride.
I am running double coins (recommended by the local Firestone shop) and find that at 120psi the ride is a little "stiff".
Can anyone provide me with FIRST HAND experience on this subject?thanks.

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:20 PM   #2
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1. Nitrogen in the tires comes from auto racing where at 200 mph tire pressures are critical. You are not going to go that fast are you?

2. Normal air is 78% Nitrogen, so you want to pay good money for 22% more?

3. In numerous threads on RV forums the most experts agree that this is a gimmmick to get extra money from you.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:32 PM   #3
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2. Normal air is 78% Nitrogen, so you want to pay good money for 22% more?
You don't even get 22% more because it is impossible to evacuate all of the existing "air" out of the tire before filling it with nitrogen. Most suppliers don't even evacuate the tire. They just bring it down to atmosphere, then fill.

There will ALWAYS be some residual "air" left in the tire until, over time, it all bleeds out.

A waste of money for the average motorist.

I have a British sports car that still has the original 1955 air in the tubes. They have never even been topped off.

Tim
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:46 PM   #4
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Its a rip off....The same dealers that are ready to cell nitrogen for your tires will also change the fluid in your headlights (if they thought they could get away with it) I check my tires on my car every week and when RVing I check my 5ers tires and truck every morning.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:46 PM   #5
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I purchased my Horizon used from a dealer a couple of years ago. The deal included 6 new tires with installation of Equal. The dealer talked me into installing nitrogen. I requested the installation of the special valve cores made for Equal. To make a long story short the tire company did not install the proper valve cores. The valve cores developed slow leaks due to the Equal working its way under the valve core seats. I was forced to remove the faulty valve cores and replace them with the proper ones. Needless to say I loss most of my nitrogen. I would not recommend anyone go with the nitrogen in RV tires. It was an expensive lesson for me.

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:49 PM   #6
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Here is an article on the subject from Popular Mechanics in respect to Automotive Tires. Not a lot different than RV Tires.

I had new tires installed at Costco on my car and they fill with Nitrogen as standard. I watched them fill and noticed they do a purge as described in the link. Personally, I can't say one way or another but I tend to agree that to pay 20-30 bucks for Nitrogen is a waste of money.


Nitrogen vs Air In Tires - Why Nitrogen in Tires - Popular Mechanics
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Healeyman View Post

You don't even get 22% more because it is impossible to evacuate all of the existing "air" out of the tire before filling it with nitrogen. Most suppliers don't even evacuate the tire. They just bring it down to atmosphere, then fill.

There will ALWAYS be some residual "air" left in the tire until, over time, it all bleeds out.

A waste of money for the average motorist.

I have a British sports car that still has the original 1955 air in the tubes. They have never even been topped off.

Tim
Wow, now that's hard to believe. What brand of tubes are these? I need some on my bike which I have to top off every once in a while.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:55 PM   #8
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Just for the record, that "residual" air is also 70% nitrogen.

I'd not spend the money on the nitrogen either. Instead, I went out and bought a portible air compressor with the power to air the tires up and I check them before a long trip, especially if we've sat for a month or more before the trip.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:09 PM   #9
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Oxygen triggers oxygenation or corrosion. So 100% nitrogen is better no doubt if measured by scientific instruments. It will leak out of a tire at 50% the rate of air. So in enough time you will have mostly all Nitogen in the tire by default. More oxygen seeps out than nitrogen so you may have a 90/10 mixture most of the time anyway.

What is the bigger advantage of nitrogen fill is there is no water or humidity in it. The water mixed with oxygen will cause pitting (oxygenation) of the aluminum alloy at the rim. This increases tire pressure seepage.

If you start with a brand new wheel and always keep it filled with nitogen you will not have any wheel corrosion.

Also same case but this time you use 'dried air' with 0% water you have the same result - no corrosion.

I wonder if people in low humidity Arizona have less tire pressure issues the high humidity Florida. In theory this is true.

It takes time for wheel corrosion to cause an issue. Just took a 10 year old car to have the alloy wheel cleaned, they ran sealant goop around the edge and remounted the tire. Leak is now gone.

Also - humidity is why you get a few drops of water from your air compressor and air tools rust from the inside out.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis45 View Post
Here is an article on the subject from Popular Mechanics in respect to Automotive Tires. Not a lot different than RV Tires.

I had new tires installed at Costco on my car and they fill with Nitrogen as standard. I watched them fill and noticed they do a purge as described in the link. Personally, I can't say one way or another but I tend to agree that to pay 20-30 bucks for Nitrogen is a waste of money.


Nitrogen vs Air In Tires - Why Nitrogen in Tires - Popular

Mechanics
One thing in the PM article that surprised me was that they mention there is less pressure change over temperature changes when using nitrogen and imply that it is due to some property of nitrogen.

That is not due to the use of nitrogen which follows the ideal gas law as does air. It is because they are using dry nitrogen.

The water vapor in the air causes the difference and if dry air is used the pressure change due to temp change will be the same for both.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Folks View Post
1. Nitrogen in the tires comes from auto racing where at 200 mph tire pressures are critical. You are not going to go that fast are you?

2. Normal air is 78% Nitrogen, so you want to pay good money for 22% more?

3. In numerous threads on RV forums the most experts agree that this is a gimmmick to get extra money from you.

I agree. People who have nitrogen in their tires all of a sudden have to go to a place that has nitrogen fill equipment to be able to check and adjust their pressure. Its an advertising/marketing gimmick to force you to come to their store for routine maintenance that you should do yourself.

How many people run low tires because they have nitrogen and can't adjust it themselves. Even if they just run them low till they get to the dealer, is that safe?

I have heard a couple NASCAR reasons for nitrogen;
1: NASCAR only uses it because their high performance pneumatic tools run on nitrogen, and so they use it to fill tires too.
2: Pure nitrogen expands at a known rate, while 'air' does not because of varying humidity and 'other' gas content. They want to know exactly how much pressure will increase at racing temperatures, and have that be consistent no matter if they are in Vegas, or Daytona.

I don't know if either is true.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:44 PM   #12
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Useless.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:03 PM   #13
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Actually, the business of using nitrogen comes from the aircraft industry. They cannot afford to have the gas in their tires freezing. The air doesn't freeze, of course, but the moisture does. That can be catastrophic, so they use dry nitrogen. Those nitrogen bottles are stored at 3000 PSI, and it's quick and easy to fill an aviation tire.

The idea of using it in passenger tires or RV tires is, as others have mentioned, just a way of conning people into spending extra money.

As always YMMV, but really, it's a solution to a non-problem.

Tom
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:32 PM   #14
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I would like too add.I work at automotive dealership that sells nitrogen for tires.We preload all new vehicles with it.We have machines that run through several cycles that removes the air.The main benefit that I personally like.Is that I have a tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) on my cars.And those systems do not like moisture.It is electronic after all.Its nice to have super dry air inside the tire. The downside is....at least here in Houston when the temps fall.....So does the tire pressure.Seems its affected by temperature extremes. Sometimes we get an onslaught of folks coming by for refills(for free of course ) because their dash lites are on.My opinion is if no tpms don't bother. But can be good for steel wheels.Most modern alloy wheels will be unaffected buy regular humidty. Theres my two cents
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