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Old 09-29-2015, 01:20 PM   #29
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All this discussion has got me thinking.
Are there any studies on using Methane in tires? Instead of spending money on Nitrogen, I could use my money to buy Beer and collect the Methane, compress it and fill my tires.
Now, if I wanted to get to my destination quickly, just light off the tires and Poof, away we go. Not great for tire life but, think of the Fuel Economy.
Just Sayin,,,,,
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Old 09-29-2015, 01:31 PM   #30
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The advantage I see with using Nitrogen in Car tires is helping to protect your TPMS from moisture. When I replaced my tires on my truck I was surprised how corroded the sensors were. Of course you could also use a dryer on your air compressor and probably have the same results.
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Old 09-29-2015, 02:20 PM   #31
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Have not read this entire thread, but we use it in the shop (BMW) for clients who want it - great way to get money from customers who think it makes a difference.
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Old 09-29-2015, 10:57 PM   #32
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As I've posted in other links on this topic, the only benefit of nitrogen is if your tires are going to get VERY HOT.

I worked in Boeing's Landing Gear and brakes group for a few years and was involved in the decision to require nitrogen in airplane tires. Among all the incidents I analysed, one particular incident was the clincher, as it could have been a fatal crash.

A fully-loaded 727 taxied about 2 miles across the airport to the take-off position. One main-gear brake was dragging and higher than normal power had to be used to maintain taxi speed. It then took off after a long, high-speed run on the runway, due to being close to maximum allowable weight. The gear was retracted normally.

At about 18,000 feet during the climb-out, the tire on the wheel with the dragging brake blew up. The blast punched an 18" hole in the pressure bulkhead between the wheel-well and the pressurised aft baggage compartment.

The decompression started to break up the floor where the control cables to the elevators ran. If it hadn't been for a couple of US Mail bags getting stuck in the hole and slowing down the airflow, the airplane would have gone out of control.

When the burst tire was analysed, we found that the steel cords in the tire bead had failed in tension. Calculations showed that an internal pressure of about 12,000 psi would be necessary to do that.

The final conclusion was that there had been out-gassing of combustibles from the tire casing inner surface that had exploded after mixing with the air in the tire, generating the high pressure.

Bottom line - if your RV can accelerate to 170 mph in 2 miles with a dragging brake, then climb to 15,000 feet with the wheels in an enclosed box, you should use nitrogen. Anything less, you're wasting money!
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Old 09-30-2015, 12:12 AM   #33
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I do not agree, your steel belts are molded within the rubber, they will not rust, I would really like to know where you heard this

Nitrogen is a marketing gimmick
When I was young, most vehicles had inner tubes inside of tires to retain the air and proper air pressure. We loved those old inner tubes for floating at the lake. Sorry off track here. I watched lots of patches being glued on inner tubes then placed back in those tires back then. Now we have inner tubeless tires. That of course means the tires do not require an inner tube. The way this is possible comes from the rubber coating that is on the inside of tires. This rubber coating is the new inner tube. It seals the air inside just like the inner tubes did. If you manage to get your tire hot enough by running it very low on air pressure or flat, the rubber coating can melt enough to where it will not hold air. The tire is then ruined and a inner tube placed in a tubeless tire will not fix it for long or maybe not at all. I've talked to tire dealers who have tried with no success. I learned the lesson myself recently when my wife ran over something in the road in her Ford Explorer. I got out, looked, air was coming out a punctured hole. I jumped in the driver seat and drove fast to a tire store within two miles. It didn't feel low and I thought it was fine while I was driving to the tire store. When I arrived there the tech put the car up on a lift. He put air in the tire and bubbles formed all around the sidewall. He said the rubber seal inside had gotten too hot and melted the inner rubber seal enough causing the tire to become trash. He told me he could have put a patch inside and made a successful repair if I would not have driven on it. That was a two hundred dollar mistake!
My point is if you see a low tire, feel a low tire a quick stop is advisable unless buying a new tire doesn't bother you. I won't do that again.
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Old 09-30-2015, 12:43 AM   #34
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Marketing gimmick costo didn't charge extra when I bought new tires there for DW'S car
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Old 09-30-2015, 02:20 AM   #35
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Ok here's the take on this guys. I worked on NASCAR teams in the lower echelon for 15 years. We used Nitrogen in the tires because it is dry and contains no moisture and the long cylindrical tanks would fit long ways in our tool and crash pit carts. Because there is no moisture being introduced into the tire it makes the rise in pressure more predictable hence we could predict how much the tire grew as it heated up on the track. That effects stagger (left side tires always bigger than the right to help it turn) on the setup of the car. Moisture or H2O, when heated to the point where it turns into a gas expands around 5 times as much as air. So without going into too much boring detail. You can't control how much water is absorbed into the compressed air, so by using nitrogen you nullify that out of the equation. Also we used to actually vacuum the tires down after mounting them with a vacuum pump then fill them with nitrogen, called purging.
As for as your daily driver or your rig, don't waste your beer or fuel money.
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Old 09-30-2015, 02:55 AM   #36
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The advantage I see with using Nitrogen in Car tires is helping to protect your TPMS from moisture. When I replaced my tires on my truck I was surprised how corroded the sensors were. Of course you could also use a dryer on your air compressor and probably have the same results.
Finally. This does make sense.
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Old 09-30-2015, 06:02 PM   #37
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Ok here's the take on this guys. I worked on NASCAR teams in the lower echelon for 15 years. We used Nitrogen in the tires because it is dry and contains no moisture and the long cylindrical tanks would fit long ways in our tool and crash pit carts. Because there is no moisture being introduced into the tire it makes the rise in pressure more predictable hence we could predict how much the tire grew as it heated up on the track. That effects stagger (left side tires always bigger than the right to help it turn) on the setup of the car. Moisture or H2O, when heated to the point where it turns into a gas expands around 5 times as much as air. So without going into too much boring detail. You can't control how much water is absorbed into the compressed air, so by using nitrogen you nullify that out of the equation. Also we used to actually vacuum the tires down after mounting them with a vacuum pump then fill them with nitrogen, called purging.
As for as your daily driver or your rig, don't waste your beer or fuel money.
I must have been sleep typing last night. Stagger is: Right side tires are larger diameter than the left. I need to start getting more sleep.

I do like the idea of using it on tires with internal TPMS. That makes sense.
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:15 PM   #38
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Check with the tire companies. If the interior rubber coating cracks the moisture will in fact rust the cords/belts. Try looking at some blown out tires where it just happened and you'll probably find rust.

Here's another but it's suspect since it's from the nitrogen suppliers!
http://www.nitrofill.com/documents/R...erioration.pdf
If you find rust in the steel belts of a tire it came from cuts in the tread of the tire allowing moisture in to the steel belts. The tire will still run for some time allowing the belts to rust, but will eventually fail.
If moisture gets to the belts from the inside of the tire you have a tire that is separated and will fail very soon.

Ask your tire man how much water he finds in tires when he dismounts them. The amount of water that goes into a tire from compressed air will evaporate after driving awhile and the temperature goes up.
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