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Old 06-18-2011, 07:55 PM   #1
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No brakes! Help

I have a 88 Gulfstream Classic, ford 460 on a john deere chassis. Heres the story, over the last couple of weeks when I would drive it short distances the brakes would start dragging, the peddle would get hard and it would get to the point where id have to stop, when the brakes are cold they work fine. So today me and a buddy were gonna flush the brake system, we removed the front calipers and lubed up the slides, sucked out old fluid and refiled with new dot3 when he went to the first brake to bleed, I noticed there was no pedal! with my foot to the floor he opened the bleeder, he said he thought he heard air come out, we repeated, this time nothing came out, no air or fluid. So we notice a strawberry milk colored fluid leaking out between the master cylinder and the electric pump that assists the brakes, now neither of us are familer with this kind of brake set up, but we do know that no vehicle is supposed to have any fluid strawberry milk colored. Heres the conclusion we came to, the previous owner accidently put engine coolant in the brake boost reservior, mixed with dextron 3 turns a nice strawberry milk color, we tried it. Anyways, we believe that this might be the reason the brakes would start grabbing, but it appears I need a new seal between the master cylinder and the electric motor, we flushed all the bad stuff out, took about 2 gallons. But I still have no brakes, electric assist kicks on when brake peddle is applied but pedal goes to the floor, did the coolant in the brake boost ruin the electric pump? This is my first motorhome so any help is greatly appricated.
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:48 PM   #2
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I'd continue trying to bleed the brakes. Do you have an air compressor? It may be worth it to borrow, reant, or buy a pressure bleeder.
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:15 AM   #3
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I have a compressor but im thinking the gear in the electric pump is bad, not sure how the system works but there is no pedal, what would cause this.
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:47 AM   #4
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I have a 88 Gulfstream Classic, ford 460 on a john deere chassis. Heres the story, over the last couple of weeks when I would drive it short distances the brakes would start dragging, the peddle would get hard and it would get to the point where id have to stop, when the brakes are cold they work fine. So today me and a buddy were gonna flush the brake system, we removed the front calipers and lubed up the slides, sucked out old fluid and refiled with new dot3 when he went to the first brake to bleed, I noticed there was no pedal! with my foot to the floor he opened the bleeder, he said he thought he heard air come out, we repeated, this time nothing came out, no air or fluid. So we notice a strawberry milk colored fluid leaking out between the master cylinder and the electric pump that assists the brakes, now neither of us are familer with this kind of brake set up, but we do know that no vehicle is supposed to have any fluid strawberry milk colored. Heres the conclusion we came to, the previous owner accidently put engine coolant in the brake boost reservior, mixed with dextron 3 turns a nice strawberry milk color, we tried it. Anyways, we believe that this might be the reason the brakes would start grabbing, but it appears I need a new seal between the master cylinder and the electric motor, we flushed all the bad stuff out, took about 2 gallons. But I still have no brakes, electric assist kicks on when brake peddle is applied but pedal goes to the floor, did the coolant in the brake boost ruin the electric pump? This is my first motorhome so any help is greatly appricated.
Krazzykitt, Try botom up bleeding...Any parts store has a hand pump for this ..around 30 bucks...bleed from rr,then Lr,rf and then Lf. very easy to bleed.. Do you have auto park brake? that may have been your brake drag..its behind the trans and is spring applied and hyd release from the booster. The system uses trans fluid and maybe the pink fluid was air in the trans fluid? possible...I have an old contact at John Deere customer service...Alice McGrath 319-522-7448 good place to start...
Good luck
Richard
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:28 AM   #5
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I have a compressor but im thinking the gear in the electric pump is bad, not sure how the system works but there is no pedal, what would cause this.
The hydroboost is just a brake power assist. Does the same thing as a vacuum assist, but does it better. It's used in all diesels with hydraulic brakes cause they have no vacuum to power a conventional booster, and they are also used in lots of other heavy duty gas applications.

It is normally powered by the power steering pump. and the system supplies pressurized oil to the power steering as well.
The electric motor is a backup pump so you have brake boost assist even if your engine quits.

A bad hydroboost will not ever cause a "pedal goes to the floor I got no brakes" situation.

You have air in the lines, and need to bleed the brakes until it's gone.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:05 AM   #6
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I wonder if the strawberry fluid is from the hydroboost as its all part of the power steering system. But I also would get a hand vacuum pump to suck the fluid from the wheel end.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:18 AM   #7
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I wonder if the strawberry fluid is from the hydroboost as its all part of the power steering system. But I also would get a hand vacuum pump to suck the fluid from the wheel end.

You don't you push fluid and air to master cyl
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:33 AM   #8
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The system is now flushed. Still no brakes, it looks like the hydro boost system is seperate from the power steering, theres a seperate power steering resevoir. It seems there may be air in the system but that wouldnt involve the hydro boost system? Just theres no pedal
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:10 PM   #9
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Just to enlighten some , a vacuum pump sucks the fluid out, not push it thru. The key word here is "vacuum".
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:31 PM   #10
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Just to enlighten some , a vacuum pump sucks the fluid out, not push it thru. The key word here is "vacuum".
Hi Jeepfreak, You can suck... or push..bottom up means just that start at the bottom and bleed up......it works well with some systems that are hard to bleed Check it out
The next bleeder tool, maybe a little less expensive, is the Mityvac®. This is a hand held vacuum pump with a two push on hose connectors. It can be used for other jobs around the car requiring vacuum or low pressure, so you might own this tool for multiple purposes. The first mode of operation for bleeding hydraulics is to attach it to the bleed nipple and suck the fluid out. As usual, when you get clean fluid and no air bubbles, quit. Also do not let the master cylinder go empty, or you start all over. You might have a slight problem with air infiltration around the threads of the bleed nipple. This is more likely to be a problem with the clutch than with brakes. There is also a "pro" version of this device which is air powered using a venturi to draw a vacuum, and having a large catch container for the waste fluid. One of those things can suck a master cylinder dry in seconds, so be alert and be quick about it, and keep adding fluid to the master cylinder as required. If you can't get all the air out of the clutch line and slave cylinder this way, proceed to plan B.

The second possible mode of operation for bleeding hydraulics with the Mityvac is to use it for reverse bleeding. Switch the hoses, drop the suction hose into a bottle of fresh hydraulic fluid, and put the pressure hose on the bleed nipple. This way you can push clean fluid into the bleeder, forcing any air in the line back up into the master cylinder. This is particularly effective at getting a stubborn clutch circuit primed. Do NOT allow the master cylinder reservoir to overflow while doing this. Also this will NOT get all of the air out of a slave cylinder, so you will still have to switch it around the other way to draw the last bit of air out to finish the job.

The next bleeder tool, quite a lot less expensive, is the Visibleed®. This is basically a hose with a check valve on the end. From under the car, open the bleed nipple a turn, stick the hose on the bleed nipple, drop the check valve end into a catch container. Then in the drivers seat, pump the brake (or clutch) pedal a few times to expel dirty fluid and/or air. Then back under the car, close the bleeder BEFORE disconnecting the hose. You may have to guess at how many strokes of the pedal are needed to flush each line, or this may require multiple trips under the car for inspection in process. Keep topping off the master cylinder reservoir as required. Doing this single handed you can count on at least one round trip from under car to inside and back under car for each bleed nipple, with periodic reservoir checks included. This can go much quicker with a helper to pump the pedal and maybe refill the reservoir. But then if you had a helper, you could be using your finger tip on the bleeders (or end of a clear hose) for a check valve, and you wouldn't need this tool.
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:39 PM   #11
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The system is now flushed. Still no brakes, it looks like the hydro boost system is seperate from the power steering, theres a seperate power steering resevoir. It seems there may be air in the system but that wouldnt involve the hydro boost system? Just theres no pedal
Krazzykitt, Its hard finding info for the JD chassis brake system but call the number at JD I gave ya. Maybe we have a JD chassis owner who knows more and can give more input. Do you have the auto park brake??or manual?
Richard
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:41 PM   #12
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I have a leak between the hydro boost and the master cylinder, its the hydro boost thats leaking power steering fluid, but the leak wouldnt explain the brakes going to the floor, maybe the master cylinder is bad to? The hydro boost is a Bendix part but i cant seem to find anything on it, any ideas?
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:52 PM   #13
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I have the auto park brake.
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:59 PM   #14
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I have the auto park brake.
Is it working? does it release?
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