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Old 10-14-2016, 04:39 PM   #15
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Out with the old, and in with the new! Easy-Peasy!
I cheated, bought a swiveling gear wrench so I could have a good fit in tight quarters.

I noticed the new sender set the probe back about .100". Maybe the original was causing some flow issues thus creating some buildup.

All in need to do now is a leak test. Waiting for battery charge....
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:40 PM   #16
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Thanks for all you help!
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Old 10-14-2016, 06:28 PM   #17
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The Cummins Onan tech at the Cummins rally last year also said he cut the bolt and installs a shorter bolt. Bet they still charge for something else even though they know a faster way.

Mine was corroded in also, the center part came out and left the threads.. The cost for the housing, sensor, thermostat is not that much, I don't know why any one would not replace all if corrosion is present.

I had my generator sitting in the garage on the floor, did not remove any side panels just the top panel, not hard to do, changed belt at the same time.
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Old 10-15-2016, 04:16 PM   #18
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With all the pictures and explanations, I'm still not so sure about the exact location of this device, so please bear with me for a bit longer. Now looking down from the front and under the hood of my coach, the genset metal covers are green except for the front of the unit, which has black covers. Now if I should be able to remove the black cover or covers from the genset, will I then be able to see this device? I already have it and it is as stated and shown. If this will gain me access, I'll have about 12" between it and the front cap and thought it worth a shot, anyway.
I keep hearing about having to remove the top cover as well and if that be the case, then I'll probably be better off to just drop the whole unit out the bottom.
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Old 10-15-2016, 04:47 PM   #19
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With all the pictures and explanations, I'm still not so sure about the exact location of this device, so please bear with me for a bit longer. Now looking down from the front and under the hood of my coach, the genset metal covers are green except for the front of the unit, which has black covers. Now if I should be able to remove the black cover or covers from the genset, will I then be able to see this device? I already have it and it is as stated and shown. If this will gain me access, I'll have about 12" between it and the front cap and thought it worth a shot, anyway.
I keep hearing about having to remove the top cover as well and if that be the case, then I'll probably be better off to just drop the whole unit out the bottom.
tropical,
No sweat on the uncertainty about the location. If you've not done much, or any, work on these little beasts, it can be a tad bit perplexing. Ok, if you're standing at the front of your coach, and open the gen access panel on the front of the coach, based on year/make/model of coach,the top of that gen, for those that do not slide out, will be around 6" to a foot down from the bottom of the access panel that you just opened up to do any daily checks.

The actual front of the gen will be approximately 1-2' back from the front cap of the coach, plus or minus. And, you've noticed, you'll see black sheet metal encompassing the front section which, will also house the external toggle for starting it, the access door for checking and adding coolant etc.

Now, I've not looked at a hard mounted 7.5QD in a while so, I'm not too sure just what's in front of it, that would hinder you from removing the front panel. Only you will be able to determine that. But, in any case, that sensor, is located almost all the way to the rear of the gen, very close to the top of the engine, a tad bit to the left of center. That's its basic locale. Gaining access to it and working with tools around it, while it's in there, is going to be a chore, a very difficult one at that. The distance from the front panel to that sensor is around, oh, maybe 2.5-3' away. So, it would be a loooonnnnnggg stretch for sure.

You don't see all the paneling attached in my pictures 'cause I started taking them after I removed much of the outer sheet metal. I'll try to find more later.
Scott
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Old 10-15-2016, 07:22 PM   #20
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tropical,
No sweat on the uncertainty about the location. If you've not done much, or any, work on these little beasts, it can be a tad bit perplexing. Ok, if you're standing at the front of your coach, and open the gen access panel on the front of the coach, based on year/make/model of coach,the top of that gen, for those that do not slide out, will be around 6" to a foot down from the bottom of the access panel that you just opened up to do any daily checks.

The actual front of the gen will be approximately 1-2' back from the front cap of the coach, plus or minus. And, you've noticed, you'll see black sheet metal encompassing the front section which, will also house the external toggle for starting it, the access door for checking and adding coolant etc.

Now, I've not looked at a hard mounted 7.5QD in a while so, I'm not too sure just what's in front of it, that would hinder you from removing the front panel. Only you will be able to determine that. But, in any case, that sensor, is located almost all the way to the rear of the gen, very close to the top of the engine, a tad bit to the left of center. That's its basic locale. Gaining access to it and working with tools around it, while it's in there, is going to be a chore, a very difficult one at that. The distance from the front panel to that sensor is around, oh, maybe 2.5-3' away. So, it would be a loooonnnnnggg stretch for sure.

You don't see all the paneling attached in my pictures 'cause I started taking them after I removed much of the outer sheet metal. I'll try to find more later.
Scott
OK, got it and did find a utube video with the covers off and showing it in the thermo housing where the radiator hose connects and of all places. Yes all the way to the rear almost and the top cover has just a few inches of clearance, so not even sure if I could get the cover off, let alone do any work on the sensor. Having said that, For now and until it becomes my priority, I'm wondering where the other end of the sensor wire is and if it's looking at an open or a path to ground for normal operation. Thinking of putting a switch on it if I can get to it, in a more convenient location so that I can possibly get past the first 5 minutes of operation when it's warm and has been run recently. Does this make any sense or logic and would come in handy for the next time the problem might occur again. Might even be able to get to as much right at the sensor, with a second look and will explore that tomorrow, if I can get to it. Are there any wiring diagrams or schematics available on this thing anywhere that might show this thing in the circuit.
Again, the generator always runs and does fine as long as you don't shut down and then try to run it again, before it cools down sufficiently.
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Old 10-16-2016, 12:36 AM   #21
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tropical,
That sensor has more than one duty. It's also responsible for sending the "cold" signal to the Kubotas ECM. The ECM determines what level the cold temp of the coolant is and, based on a given level, it then turns on the "glow plugs" for a given amount of time. The colder the engine coolant is, the longer the glow plugs are to run, before allowing the engines starter to actually turn the engine over.

If your coolant is above a certain temp, there's no waiting and no glow plug action and therefore, you get instant cranking on the starter. So, trying to fool that system in the manor you're thinking about most likely won't work. You could try it though, just to see. Good luck.
Scott
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:34 PM   #22
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tropical,
That sensor has more than one duty. It's also responsible for sending the "cold" signal to the Kubotas ECM. The ECM determines what level the cold temp of the coolant is and, based on a given level, it then turns on the "glow plugs" for a given amount of time. The colder the engine coolant is, the longer the glow plugs are to run, before allowing the engines starter to actually turn the engine over.

If your coolant is above a certain temp, there's no waiting and no glow plug action and therefore, you get instant cranking on the starter. So, trying to fool that system in the manor you're thinking about most likely won't work. You could try it though, just to see. Good luck.
Scott
Took another look down under today and yes there's no doubt that the whole unit has to be dropped for fixing anything under that top cover. Kinda ridiculous with any kind of fore thought, but it is what it is.
Once it gets up towards the top of my priority list, I'll see what I can do with it.
Don't get it with this Kubota name and is this the engine part of the unit, the generator or both?
Thanks for all your help and to others who have contributed, as well.
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:00 PM   #23
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Just an idea: If you can access the wire that connects to the sensor, you may be able to switch in a new sensor that is outside of the engine. Just connect the wire lead to the new sensor and a grounding wire to the case of that sensor. Install it in an area that is away from engine heat, so that it sends a "cold" signal to the ECM. I doubt that having the glow plugs come on for a few seconds during a start cycle when the engine is actually hot will be any problem.
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:40 PM   #24
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"I doubt that having the glow plugs come on for a few seconds during a start cycle when the engine is actually hot will be any problem."

The glow plugs are completely out of the circuit and starting process when the engine is hot. The technology of that little 14HP Kubota and it's ECM is way outdated but, it's good enough to handle the simple chores of controlling that little motor. And, as stated above, that sensor, while located in an "un-convenient" area, is pretty much the senior authority in sending signals to that ECM so the ECM can handle cold, REALLY cold, intermediate and or hot start conditions.

Then, when the engine is running, that same sensor continues to tell the ECM of operation temperature. When trouble begins, as in an unplanned engine shut-down, that ECM, can develop numerous codes, that will show up as flashes and spaces, in the lighted toggle. You count the flashes and spaces, then determine the appropriate correlation to the codes. These codes are listed in all the troubleshooting sections of the owners and ops manuals.

There are sporadic reports on here and other RV forums where some folks have actually purchased a new sensor and, attached it to the sensor wire. Then, they've actually either taped or, hose-clamped that sensor to the radiator hose.

And, I think from what I've read, it actually worked because the sensor can pickup both the cold conditions and, hot conditions through that radiator hose. As for a ground, I'm not sure on that. Maybe they used one and tied the body of the sensor to a separate wire and ran that wire to a good ground.
Scott
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Old 10-17-2016, 12:58 AM   #25
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CC2602A - Fleetguard | Coolant Analysis

This is what you use to really understand the condition of the coolant. Images show a acidic condition, that could lead to perforated cylinder walls.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:21 AM   #26
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05 Expedition with the same 7500 generator. I have the generator dropped and the covers off. That little sensor is some kind of stuck in there. Didn't want to be to aggressive andbust something and a bit intimidated about removing the head. Don't suppose iT would help to shoot some movit up in there to loosen it. Hate to give up on it at this point. Fire up has pretty well covered the topic.

Thanks.

Bob
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:01 AM   #27
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05 Expedition with the same 7500 generator. I have the generator dropped and the covers off. That little sensor is some kind of stuck in there. Didn't want to be to aggressive andbust something and a bit intimidated about removing the head. Don't suppose iT would help to shoot some movit up in there to loosen it. Hate to give up on it at this point. Fire up has pretty well covered the topic.

Thanks.

Bob
Never give up and especially at this point. Now, didn't someone say that you could change out the whole housing, instead of fighting with getting the sensor out in one piece and possibly not breaking this housing in the process?
By the way, how much trouble was it to remove the genset itself and how did you go about it?
Was the fuel line a problem and once disconnected, I imagine it had to be plugged, as well as the return line, so as not to siphon fuel from the tank, correct?
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:18 AM   #28
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"I doubt that having the glow plugs come on for a few seconds during a start cycle when the engine is actually hot will be any problem."

The glow plugs are completely out of the circuit and starting process when the engine is hot. The technology of that little 14HP Kubota and it's ECM is way outdated but, it's good enough to handle the simple chores of controlling that little motor. And, as stated above, that sensor, while located in an "un-convenient" area, is pretty much the senior authority in sending signals to that ECM so the ECM can handle cold, REALLY cold, intermediate and or hot start conditions.

Then, when the engine is running, that same sensor continues to tell the ECM of operation temperature. When trouble begins, as in an unplanned engine shut-down, that ECM, can develop numerous codes, that will show up as flashes and spaces, in the lighted toggle. You count the flashes and spaces, then determine the appropriate correlation to the codes. These codes are listed in all the troubleshooting sections of the owners and ops manuals.

There are sporadic reports on here and other RV forums where some folks have actually purchased a new sensor and, attached it to the sensor wire. Then, they've actually either taped or, hose-clamped that sensor to the radiator hose.

And, I think from what I've read, it actually worked because the sensor can pickup both the cold conditions and, hot conditions through that radiator hose. As for a ground, I'm not sure on that. Maybe they used one and tied the body of the sensor to a separate wire and ran that wire to a good ground.
Scott
Given what you and bluepill are saying here and considering that getting to this wire is about the same as getting to the sensor itself, where is the other end of this wire or possibly the middle of it, more or less? I imagine it comes from the ECM directly and if so, where might it be and hopefully with better access?
I've been looking at every manual I can find without much help and it seems that the thing ONAN is best at is for providing sales specs. and directing you to their nearest dealer.
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