Opinions wanted

[B Bob]

5string71 - I am not a mechanic but I do listen and can tell you that CAT has said to me that the C12 (which we have), C13, And C15 all have the same block. The number does refer to the liter displacement.

The CAT vs Cummins argument in my humble opinion is a Chevy vs Ford discussion or Dodge vs GMC. I have many friends with both motors. Both work fine. It is not accurate to indicate CAT stopped making this type of motor. They make exactly the same motors but are just not used in OTR trucks or motor homes. I own stock in both companies. CAT has 63 billion in yearly turnover and is quite profitable. Cummins has 26 billion in yearly turnover and is even a bit higher profit %.

[5string71]

Originally Posted by B Bob

5string71 - I am not a mechanic but I do listen and can tell you that CAT has said to me that the C12 (which we have), C13, And C15 all have the same block. The number does refer to the liter displacement.

The CAT vs Cummins argument in my humble opinion is a Chevy vs Ford discussion or Dodge vs GMC. I have many friends with both motors. Both work fine. It is not accurate to indicate CAT stopped making this type of motor. They make exactly the same motors but are just not used in OTR trucks or motor homes. I own stock in both companies. CAT has 63 billion in yearly turnover and is quite profitable. Cummins has 26 billion in yearly turnover and is even a bit higher profit %.

Thanks for the input B Bob, that is exactly how I was looking at it. No matter who you talk to you are going to get a differing opinion as to which is better. I was just checking out there to see if there was something significantly wrong with the Cat that would give me a reason to stay away from it.

I did discover last night or this morning what you are referring to about the displacement. It is a C13 however and was manufactured in 2004.

[JohnFreyja]

I have a 08 Country Coach Intrigue with I believe a 07 CAT C-13 which now has 41000 miles. Just had an oil change and was informed that there was a considerable amount of metal fragments in the oil that came out and they (PoulsboRV) recommended having a oil analysis. Unfortunately, they did not provide me with the used oil to have analyzed. I will be taking a short trip this next week of 200-300 miles and then will take a sample to send in. It's been a great running engine and I hope this isn't something catastrophic.

[MarkofSJC]

Setting aside the discussion of power plants for a moment...

I think going with a Country Coach is a great move. They are excellent coaches...both the engineering "behind the scenes" and the materials you can see.

That being said, there were very significant upgrades made starting in the 2007 model year, not that the '06 were bad in any way. You'll find a running history of the changes made on Damon's web site Model History | Damon Rapozo

Things to check out on this specific coach:
- Paint checking/fiberglass coming through on dark colors
- Dry vs. Wet Power take off (important to convert if not done)
- Aluminum radiators (high failure rate and catastrophic if they fail while underway)

That's about it...they're really excellent coaches.

Just my two cents!

Mark

[Smitty77]

Originally Posted by MarkofSJC

Setting aside the discussion of power plants for a moment...

I think going with a Country Coach is a great move. They are excellent coaches...both the engineering "behind the scenes" and the materials you can see.

That being said, there were very significant upgrades made starting in the 2007 model year, not that the '06 were bad in any way. You'll find a running history of the changes made on Damon's web site Model History | Damon Rapozo

Things to check out on this specific coach:
- Paint checking/fiberglass coming through on dark colors
- Dry vs. Wet Power take off (important to convert if not done)
- Aluminum radiators (high failure rate and catastrophic if they fail while underway)

That's about it...they're really excellent coaches.

Just my two cents!

Mark

I always thought he Paint Checking Micro Cracking of the Fiberglass, was in the Allure model on down? Thought Intrigue on up used a different supplier.

Concur on double checking the Radiator and PTO, but if they are suspect, I see them more as a bargaining point vs a deal breaker!

I'll also add that some CC's came with a combo of the BIG CAT, and a CAT Automatic. I personally, would really prefer the BIG CAT coupled with the Allison 4000. So checking the transmission, could be another bargaining point.

On the conversation of CAT vs Cummins, I would go with the bigger displacement/HP/Torque engine.

I also feel the pre heavy smog changes from 2006 on up, are not as desirable as the less smog impacted engines.

But, the coach layout itself, and full documentation of maintenance, IMO, are more important then which engine and or transmission is bedded to the chassis.

OP - Keep doing your due diligence, and a good CC is a very worthy coach,
Smitty

[ecurb74]

Leaving the Cat and thing aside and back to the gist of the question, older but higher end. That is exactly what we did. Traded in newer for an older high end coach and couldn't be happier. With the higher end Foretravel that we traded for we went from a too small water heater to an Aquahot system that heats water, the coach and engine, plus in turn the engine heats the system while your driving. When you get there your water is hot. Went from 4 to 8 bag air system plus they are not on the frame rails so there is better stability. A transmission with retarder which is joy stick controlled (and is absolutely the cats pajamas!) 450 HP M11 Cummins, Heated bays, full size electric porcelain toilet, Real wood throughout, 6 wheel air disc brakes etc..... Point is don't be afraid to go older and better. Just get don't get locked in on one coach. Shop around and do your homework and I think you'll be happy with a better riding, driving and more sound coach that will out last you. Good luck in your endeavor.


Bruce & Teresa
40' 2000 Foretravel U320
Cummins M11 450hp
Allison HD4060R 6 Spd W/Retarder

[5string71]

Originally Posted by Smitty77

I always thought he Paint Checking Micro Cracking of the Fiberglass, was in the Allure model on down? Thought Intrigue on up used a different supplier.

Concur on double checking the Radiator and PTO, but if they are suspect, I see them more as a bargaining point vs a deal breaker!

I'll also add that some CC's came with a combo of the BIG CAT, and a CAT Automatic. I personally, would really prefer the BIG CAT coupled with the Allison 4000. So checking the transmission, could be another bargaining point.

On the conversation of CAT vs Cummins, I would go with the bigger displacement/HP/Torque engine.

I also feel the pre heavy smog changes from 2006 on up, are not as desirable as the less smog impacted engines.

But, the coach layout itself, and full documentation of maintenance, IMO, are more important then which engine and or transmission is bedded to the chassis.

OP - Keep doing your due diligence, and a good CC is a very worthy coach,
Smitty

Thanks Smitty for the input, the engine was manufactured in 04 but i would assume that the smog changes you are talking about would apply since this is an 06 coach. Also on the engine tranny topic it is the 535 Cat and has the 4000 Allison in it.

[5string71]

Originally Posted by ecurb74

Leaving the Cat and thing aside and back to the gist of the question, older but higher end. That is exactly what we did. Traded in newer for an older high end coach and couldn't be happier. With the higher end Foretravel that we traded for we went from a too small water heater to an Aquahot system that heats water, the coach and engine, plus in turn the engine heats the system while your driving. When you get there your water is hot. Went from 4 to 8 bag air system plus they are not on the frame rails so there is better stability. A transmission with retarder which is joy stick controlled (and is absolutely the cats pajamas!) 450 HP M11 Cummins, Heated bays, full size electric porcelain toilet, Real wood throughout, 6 wheel air disc brakes etc..... Point is don't be afraid to go older and better. Just get don't get locked in on one coach. Shop around and do your homework and I think you'll be happy with a better riding, driving and more sound coach that will out last you. Good luck in your endeavor.



Bruce & Teresa
40' 2000 Foretravel U320
Cummins M11 450hp
Allison HD4060R 6 Spd W/Retarder

Bruce thanks for the input and the statements that you have made were exactly along the line of the way I was thinking. Just get a little nervous from time to time thinking about that big Cat, maintenance and the general overall size of the coach, however we are looking for bigger and something that we feel will have some good longevity to it.

[JohnFreyja]

Update on my CAT C-13 oil analysis. CAT SOS analysis says no action at this time but copper Parts Per Million was higher than normal and to take another sample for analysis at prescribed interval.

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by JohnFreyja

I have a 08 Country Coach Intrigue with I believe a 07 CAT C-13 which now has 41000 miles. Just had an oil change and was informed that there was a considerable amount of metal fragments in the oil that came out and they (PoulsboRV) recommended having a oil analysis. Unfortunately, they did not provide me with the used oil to have analyzed. I will be taking a short trip this next week of 200-300 miles and then will take a sample to send in. It's been a great running engine and I hope this isn't something catastrophic.

Originally Posted by JohnFreyja

Update on my CAT C-13 oil analysis. CAT SOS analysis says no action at this time but copper Parts Per Million was higher than normal and to take another sample for analysis at prescribed interval.

Metal in the oil that can actually be seen and the test results say lets see what happens next time?
Something does not sound right??
Maybe another oil test from another testing lab? To see if there is any difference ? Just to make sure something internal is not coming apart........

[jacwjames]

JohnFreyja, how far did you drive before you took your oil sample???

Normally the oil sample should be taken at service interval, ~15K mile. When you do this over a period of time you should see a general trend in the results.

If your time interval was significantly less but metal content was high I would suspect a problem. I would suggest that you take a sample in 5K intervals and look for a trend in the metals.

I worked in the mining industry and we did oil changes in hours, usually 150-200 hours. Considering we ran 24/7, and put ~18 hours a day on a piece of equipment we were changing oil in less then 2 weeks on the main equipment. This would give us good tracking capability. One thing we would look for in the sample results would be silica, which was an indication of a breach in the air cleaner/filtration system.

[JohnFreyja]

Thanks for the last two reply's on my C-13. In reference to the analysis I was advised by a retired diesel mechanic that I should have the analysis done by CAT "SOS" so they could give me advice and followup. I went back to the CAT dealer and they acknowledged that it (the high copper count of 74) was not normal but also their was nothing to show a need for a tear down at this point. My understanding from the first "retired" mechanic was that if I work with them and take their advice they may be willing to help even though I am over the 5 year warranty so I will followup with another analysis in January when we go to S. Calif. The CAT dealer in Mt. Vernon, Wa. said there are several places besides the rods that the Copper could be coming from including the oil cooler.
Due to the fact that PoulsboRV did not keep a sample of the oil change I needed to put some miles on before taking the sample so we drove to E. Washington, Chelan area and back, so the distance was only about 450 miles on the oil. Their has been no loss of oil or coolant and the CAT service adviser suggested that we do another sample when we get to California.