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Old 04-11-2016, 07:16 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Deep Water D View Post
When we were down at the Tampa Show I paid particular attention to the OCCC of the gassers and made it a point to take pictures of all the labels as I was concerned about being overloaded as well. I was surprised to find that some of the gassers had less than 900 pounds of OCCC available. The only way to increase the OCCC is to decrease the weight of the coach, and they do that by decreasing the number of slides, reducing the options, and using lighter, possibly more flimsy materials in the coach construction.
Manufacturers can also increase the OCCC by using a chassis with a higher GVWR, but it costs more. Some manufacturers may use the smallest chassis they can and thus the OCCC is reduced.

Ours is 34'7", relatively short, but Winnebago uses a 22K chassis on it, whereas other manufacturers may use a 20.5K chassis. It has three slides with one being nearly full-wall. The only option that we don't have is the washer/dryer. The Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity (OCCC) on our unit is a whopping 4,174 lbs.

As noted previously, Winnebago uses a lot of aluminum in their construction as they have their own aluminum parts production facility, although aluminum is more expensive than the steel or wood used in other motorhomes.
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:26 PM   #30
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When we ordered our '02 Dutch Star the NCC was 5,300#'s so I wasn't worried about the weight. Didn't order the tile floor nor washer/dryer combo. Had them remove two walls and two pocket doors. When we got the rig it had 663#'s of CCC and all of that was on the rear axle. If I filled the fuel and propane tanks I was 50# overweight on the front axle before we ever loaded anything aboard or got in the seats.
Newmar did take the high road and have Spartan replace the 12,000# front axle with a 14,600# unit. Later I changed the wheels and tires to take the higher weights.
The Magna has a 20,000# front axle, loaded for a trip and us aboard we're at 18,030 so lots to go there. Do need to get an all position weighing done though.
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:32 PM   #31
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Yep, you've got plenty of wiggle room there on the weight-you're sitting good. Plenty of power too!
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:03 PM   #32
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As a new RV owner I was quite unaware of OCCC or "cargo Capacity". I looked at quite a few manufacture's and floor plans before I purchased my 36K bounder. When I was looking all I saw was the:
Interior Storage (cu. ft.) 126
Exterior Storage (cu. ft.) 180
Fresh Water Holding Tank (gal) 100
Grey Water Holding Tank (gal) 58
Black Water Holding Tank (gal) 42
Appliance Propane Tank (WC) (gal)8

I thought great "I can haul everything I want with those capacities". I never even gave thought to the weight and balance or useful load. Funny to because I am a pilot and very familiar with weight and balance and its critical role in aircraft. It never even crossed my mind as it applied to my RV.
SO I learned a ton from this forum and started really looking at all the GAS rigs out there to see how I compared. The bounder is on a 22K chassis so I cant change that and the only two manufacture's that have the 24K and the 26K available in a gas coach is newmar and tiffin. WE took a trip to Georgia recently and I knew I had to weigh my coach as soon as we left for the trip. We were fully loaded, gas, propane, food, clothes, electronics, and all our basement stuff. I did only half fill the fresh water tank as I have learned unless you are boondocking carry a 1000LBS of water around is crazy. Below is my weight ticket which include all three of us in the coach. I have the LX package so I have all the options you can have plus the dinette instead of the free standing. I have added front and rear sway bars and a steering stabilize as well. About the only thing I could add is a solar package at about 150LBS. I feel very good about the weight ticket as I don't think I could add much more to a trip. I will say I am not a full timer, so take that as it may be for cargo loading.

Not sure it really helps the OP but like most here have said, look at your numbers, request the dealer or individual give you a current weight ticket with at least full fuel, half water, propane, and empty grey/black tanks. Then at least you can realistically decide if it will meet your cargo needs.
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Old 04-12-2016, 06:01 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Dean View Post
As a new RV owner I was quite unaware of OCCC or "cargo Capacity". I looked at quite a few manufacture's and floor plans before I purchased my 36K bounder. When I was looking all I saw was the:
Interior Storage (cu. ft.) 126
Exterior Storage (cu. ft.) 180
Fresh Water Holding Tank (gal) 100
Grey Water Holding Tank (gal) 58
Black Water Holding Tank (gal) 42
Appliance Propane Tank (WC) (gal)8

I thought great "I can haul everything I want with those capacities". I never even gave thought to the weight and balance or useful load. Funny to because I am a pilot and very familiar with weight and balance and its critical role in aircraft. It never even crossed my mind as it applied to my RV.
SO I learned a ton from this forum and started really looking at all the GAS rigs out there to see how I compared. The bounder is on a 22K chassis so I cant change that and the only two manufacture's that have the 24K and the 26K available in a gas coach is newmar and tiffin. WE took a trip to Georgia recently and I knew I had to weigh my coach as soon as we left for the trip. We were fully loaded, gas, propane, food, clothes, electronics, and all our basement stuff. I did only half fill the fresh water tank as I have learned unless you are boondocking carry a 1000LBS of water around is crazy. Below is my weight ticket which include all three of us in the coach. I have the LX package so I have all the options you can have plus the dinette instead of the free standing. I have added front and rear sway bars and a steering stabilize as well. About the only thing I could add is a solar package at about 150LBS. I feel very good about the weight ticket as I don't think I could add much more to a trip. I will say I am not a full timer, so take that as it may be for cargo loading.

Not sure it really helps the OP but like most here have said, look at your numbers, request the dealer or individual give you a current weight ticket with at least full fuel, half water, propane, and empty grey/black tanks. Then at least you can realistically decide if it will meet your cargo needs.
So if I am adding this up correctly, the gross weight of your coach without the toad is 21,680, or 320 lbs remaining, correct? What are the max weights allowable on the front and back axles? You may be under the max gross weight, but still be over forward or backward allowable CG! Might make it a bit difficult to rotate before you run out of runway! Oh, wait, we're talking a motor home here, still need to check allowable loads on each axle!
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Old 04-12-2016, 07:16 AM   #34
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So if I am adding this up correctly, the gross weight of your coach without the toad is 21,680, or 320 lbs remaining, correct? What are the max weights allowable on the front and back axles? You may be under the max gross weight, but still be over forward or backward allowable CG! Might make it a bit difficult to rotate before you run out of runway! Oh, wait, we're talking a motor home here, still need to check allowable loads on each axle!
LOL @ rotate. I did not list the axel capacities as they have been well stated for the 22K ford chassis; however, Front is rated at 8K and rear at 15K. You notice that the axel ratings actual imply that the chassis is rated to 23K not 22K. IF I remove my tow dolly and vehicle I will get back a few hundred pounds on the GVWR.(remember tongue weight is added to your Cargo capacity or GVWR) I am well under front axel and have a few hundred pounds on my rear. My coach was very well loaded for our trip and other than actual corner weights for better tire pressure loading I don't think there is much more I could do. I know now that if I plan on a heavier item I presently don't have in the coach I need to redistribute some weight around. That was the point of my weight ticket post. I now know where my coach stands on full load weight and can plan accordingly to NOT exceed any axel or gross rating while I travel.

I also know now that if I ever upgrade to a new coach or different coach I have a good ideal of the OCCC that I would be looking at for travel and would definitely be a part of my purchase research to insure I have the capacity I desire, to include any aftermarket add on's I may desire in the future for the coach.
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Old 04-12-2016, 07:58 AM   #35
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LOL @ rotate. I did not list the axel capacities as they have been well stated for the 22K ford chassis; however, Front is rated at 8K and rear at 15K. You notice that the axel ratings actual imply that the chassis is rated to 23K not 22K. IF I remove my tow dolly and vehicle I will get back a few hundred pounds on the GVWR.(remember tongue weight is added to your Cargo capacity or GVWR) ...
Keep that up and you will get sent to the penalty box! Ya, ATC is always in the back seat. LOL

OK...

For gassers it is very typical for the GVWR to be less than the total of each axle weight rating. To date, most of the ones I've seen had a 500# difference but that was on 26K chassis with a 15.5K rear axle.

I would be surprised that a tow dolly would have too much of an affect with tongue weight. However, it "appears" you had it on the coach when you weighed it so you have a good feel for that factor already.

ASSUMING you had your tow dolly on the back...here is a bonus. If you remove the tow dolly you will load some weight back onto the front and off load some on the rear. I would suggest that you get a clean weight without the toad and compare. I would then use the toad loaded weight on the rear axle to determine that axle's pressure and then the clean front axle weight for the front. That way you will always have the minimum tire pressure needed for either scenario.

BTW...You could always just use the tire pressure outlined on the tire sticker next to the captain's chair which generally assumes fully maxed out axles. (I think there is also some fudge factor for extra weight on one side but not sure of that.) There is an interesting/fair argument that you should only use the pressures outlined in that sticker. SEE Proper Tire Inflation on Chapter 2, page 13 of this link.
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:43 AM   #36
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LOL @ rotate. I did not list the axel capacities as they have been well stated for the 22K ford chassis; however, Front is rated at 8K and rear at 15K. You notice that the axel ratings actual imply that the chassis is rated to 23K not 22K. IF I remove my tow dolly and vehicle I will get back a few hundred pounds on the GVWR.(remember tongue weight is added to your Cargo capacity or GVWR) I am well under front axel and have a few hundred pounds on my rear. My coach was very well loaded for our trip and other than actual corner weights for better tire pressure loading I don't think there is much more I could do. I know now that if I plan on a heavier item I presently don't have in the coach I need to redistribute some weight around. That was the point of my weight ticket post. I now know where my coach stands on full load weight and can plan accordingly to NOT exceed any axel or gross rating while I travel.

I also know now that if I ever upgrade to a new coach or different coach I have a good ideal of the OCCC that I would be looking at for travel and would definitely be a part of my purchase research to insure I have the capacity I desire, to include any aftermarket add on's I may desire in the future for the coach.
The absolute maximum capacity of the coach is 22K, without regard to how the axles are loaded. Thus, each axle can be loaded to capacity but not at the same time. If you have 8K on the front axle you can only put 14K on the rear axle. If you have 15K on the rear axle you can only put 7K on the front axle.

Also, I noticed that you mentioned in a previous post that only two manufacturers were using the 24K and 26K chassis. I think that you meant that they were the only two that were using them on a certain length MH or in the model that you were interested in. Winnebago has been using the 24K and 26K chassis for the heavier MHs ever since Ford introduced them. I'm sure that other manufacturers have been using the heavier chassis also for their longer, heavier MHs.
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Old 04-13-2016, 06:46 AM   #37
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Keep that up and you will get sent to the penalty box! Ya, ATC is always in the back seat. LOL
been there done that, you go to rudesheim.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Boss View Post
I would be surprised that a tow dolly would have too much of an affect with tongue weight. However, it "appears" you had it on the coach when you weighed it so you have a good feel for that factor already.
was just saying i know tongue weight is added to OCCC, approximate return weight when not towing...



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BTW...You could always just use the tire pressure outlined on the tire sticker next to the captain's chair which generally assumes fully maxed out axles. (I think there is also some fudge factor for extra weight on one side but not sure of that.)
Mine says 90PSI as per the placard and i have looked at the chart. I run 85PSI in front with 90PSI in rears, 80PSI in my dolly, and 40PSI in my toad.

Good points tho
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Old 04-13-2016, 06:52 AM   #38
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The absolute maximum capacity of the coach is 22K, without regard to how the axles are loaded. Thus, each axle can be loaded to capacity but not at the same time. If you have 8K on the front axle you can only put 14K on the rear axle. If you have 15K on the rear axle you can only put 7K on the front axle.
yes i fully understand that, i was just saying it "appears" as if you could have more, that is the point. Someone less familiar with weight and balance may think the chassis could handle 23K. It is not designed that way. I am still well under my 22K so i am good thanks..

Quote:
Originally Posted by aauummm View Post
Also, I noticed that you mentioned in a previous post that only two manufacturers were using the 24K and 26K chassis. I think that you meant that they were the only two that were using them on a certain length MH or in the model that you were interested in. Winnebago has been using the 24K and 26K chassis for the heavier MHs ever since Ford introduced them. I'm sure that other manufacturers have been using the heavier chassis also for their longer, heavier MHs.
This I did not know about winny, you are correct they have the 24K and 26K FORD chassis for their 36 plus length models as well. I think a lot of the fleetwood owners (me included) wanted to see them also go to the 24K on the 2017 model bounders but they did not for whatever reason. I could easily see me full time in my bounder if i had either the 24k or 26K to give me that little extra OCCC for full timing. Thank you for the correction on the heavier chassis manufacture's
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:03 AM   #39
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yes i fully understand that, i was just saying it "appears" as if you could have more, that is the point. Someone less familiar with weight and balance may think the chassis could handle 23K. It is not designed that way. I am still well under my 22K so i am good thanks..
OK, I understand what you were saying now. You made a very good point. I wasn't sure when I first read it, as I have run into individuals on the forums who have thought that they could load up to 23K on a 22K chassis. Yep, you're good to go on weight!
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