Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-09-2016, 07:08 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: St. Augustine
Posts: 229
Overloading common?

We're thinking of buying an A gasser and the more I learn the more cautious I'm becoming, being under the impression that many of these units, evidently nearly all built on various Ford chassis, are very close to weight limits on chassis and axles even in their empty state. Comments are solicited.
__________________

__________________
Menendez is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-09-2016, 07:23 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Hit_the_Rhod's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salvisa, KY
Posts: 2,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menendez View Post
We're thinking of buying an A gasser and the more I learn the more cautious I'm becoming, being under the impression that many of these units, evidently nearly all built on various Ford chassis, are very close to weight limits on chassis and axles even in their empty state. Comments are solicited.

I can't speak to the weight issues, but at this point all current production gas engine motor homes use the Ford V-10 engine. GM, with their 8.1 Vortec engine got out of the Motor Home business some years ago, although there are rumors that they are thinking of getting back into it. So if you are set on a gas engine, and don't like the Ford V-10, you are currently restricted to an older motor home. Not that that is a bad thing, but something to consider.
__________________

__________________
Scot & Laura Kellersberger
Newmar 4 wheel drive Dutch Star 3891, 2005 GMC Canyon. Demco Tow Bar & Baseplate U.S.Army (ret)
1985 - 2006
Hit_the_Rhod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 07:50 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
vettenuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,584
If you have specific coaches in mind, download the brochure and it will provide the capacity. On the same chassis, various models have different carrying capacity within the same manufacturer. That is one of the first things I checked when looking at coaches.
__________________
2005 Newmar Kountry Star 3742 - Gas
ACME Eze Tow Dolly
2008 Chevy Malibu Toad
vettenuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 07:57 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Steverino's Avatar
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 257
Based on everything I've read, I think you are right to be concerned. It is unfortunate that on top of finding a brand / floor plan / features you like, you also need to dig down into the various weight ratings and tank capacities to figure out whether the rig you're looking at will safely carry what you need. And this is even more fun if you're looking for something used.

Best of luck to you - with some patience and time invested you'll find the perfect one.
__________________
Steve & Carol

2000 Jayco 3230K Designer
Steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 08:03 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: St. Augustine
Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by vettenuts View Post
If you have specific coaches in mind, download the brochure and it will provide the capacity. On the same chassis, various models have different carrying capacity within the same manufacturer. That is one of the first things I checked when looking at coaches.
Unfortunately many companies don't supply useful specs for loading in their brochures and websites. Which raises suspicions.
__________________
Menendez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 08:16 AM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
Gary RVRoamer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL. USA
Posts: 18,085
I don't think the problem is as widespread as you seem to think, but it is one of the factors you should verify before buying. We owned a couple gas coaches before switching to diesel and neither was overloaded, even with all out gear onboard (and we carry a LOT of stuff for extended travel).

Since around 2000, both Workhorse and Ford developed larger gas chassis that can accommodate the popular size/weight coaches. Back in the 90's, that wasn't so true and coach builders sometimes put too large a body on the chassis, largely ignoring its GVWR limit. Higher end models had tag axles added to handle the weight, but the one targeted at lower price levels skimped in that area.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
Gary RVRoamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 08:17 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
jacwjames's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 4,597
The brochures are hard to decipher as to how much you can carry, however, each manufacturer has to display a sticker that breaks down the numbers into something that can be understood. The number to look at is CCC Cargo Carrying Capacity, which is the amount of weight you can carry excluding people, fuel, water etc.

You are right to be concerned as to the CCC available. It's not only on gas coaches but also on diesel pushers both large and small. There was a recent thread on a high end coach that left the factory with a front axle underrated from what the spec's had.

Dealers aren't going to point this out unless it's a high CCC so it's up to the buyer to investigate and get a coach that can handle whatever they plan to carry.

This is only one of the drawbacks on my coach, I only have ~1800 lbs of CCC. Sounds like a lot but in reality it isn't considering the storage space available. I actually had a class C that had +2400 lbs that hardly had any space to put things. I'm finally getting my wife to understand this and reduce the none essential "stuff".
__________________
Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
jacwjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 08:56 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
wildtoad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,929
The issue of how much stuff you can carry is NOT limited to gassers. Many diesels also have a limited amount of carrying capacity after all the options are added in, tile floors, and so on. Everyone needs to do their homework, consider how much "Stuff" you want to bring along, how much water you need to carry, empty tanks before you leave and above all don't bring everything you have "Just in case".
__________________
Tom Wilds
Blythewood SC
2016 Newmar Bay Star Sport 3004
2013 Chevy Sonic Hatchback (Automatic)
wildtoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 09:17 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
windsorbill's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Palm Desert, CA
Posts: 1,324
My brother just brought a new gasser on the ford chassis. I have scales to weight the individual corners and we weighted his. We tried several different conditions, (full tanks, empty tanks, with and without people). I was very surprised that when he was sitting in the drivers seat, we were only 100 lbs below the maximum front axle weight. So without doing anything else, when a second person is sitting up front, he's over weight (front axle only). He now compensates by putting weight way aft, but I think it's just too close.


FWIW, I personally can't get close to max on our axles, and my wife can pack the stuff in.
__________________
Bill & Brigitte
06 Windsor PRQ, Cummins 400 ISL
2014 Honda CRV
windsorbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 09:39 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
JFXG's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Today? Mercer, PA
Posts: 3,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsorbill View Post
My brother just brought a new gasser on the ford chassis.......when he was sitting in the drivers seat, we were only 100 lbs below the maximum front axle weight.......He now compensates by putting weight way aft, but I think it's just too close.......

Bill, the coach builders do exactly the same thing! That's why you see so many gas coaches with fairly short wheelbase and a loooooong rear overhang.



John & Diane, fulltiming since '12
'02 DS, FL, Cat, '04 Element
NHSO RVM103
__________________
John & Diane, Fulltimers. RVM103 NHSO
On the road since June '12 with Lincoln, the guard cat.
2002 Dutch Star 40, Freightliner, Cat 3126, 2004 Element
JFXG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 11:06 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
As has been said, not restricted to gassers but different. Typically in a gasser you will max out the rear axle before you reach GVWR while in (at least tag axles) it is the front axle that maxes out before you reach GVWR.

In other words...IMHO...you will never get to use your GVWR, gas or DP, because you will have an axle max out first. Only a couple manufacturer's will provide NCC/CCC information for a STOCK model (before options) and conversely, because of maxing an axle out first you will never get to use the full NCC/CCC as delivered.

Our 39' Winnebago had nearly 1800# of CCC but once we loaded it for part time use, full fresh water, full fuel, full LP and about 20% grey & black tanks we maxed out the rear axle. We did everything we could to shift weight forward but didn't solve that problem.

Our 43' DSDP has a GVWR of 44,200# and fully loaded with all the good stuff weighs in at 37,240# but my front axle is now close to being maxed out. I have nearly 7,000# of unusable CCC BUT...I am loaded for our full time needs and can't complain.

It is a balancing act. It is also a bit of serious footwork to find as much info as you can to better GUESS your real limitations. If you are looking at a coach that is already on the lot I highly recommend you get it weighed to at least know the real axle loads as it was built. With axle weights take into consideration what you have in actual fuel, propane & people and calculate some realistic estimates by adding for those factors not in the coach when weighed. Once you do that, you are left with your best guess on how the rest of the stuff will do to your axle limits.

The problem is that most new buyers are totally ignorant to weight and balance issues and dealers aren't going to talk about it. Having learned the hard way about these issues and redefining our mission to go full time is why we chose our second coach. HOWEVER...depending on the needs/wants of others, a gasser can be very acceptable.

In the end, it is a bit of a guess on what will be best for you unless you have had some real life experiences to guide you. The next best option is to find a couple friends with similar goals/needs that you can pick their brains and get as much info from them as you can.

GOOD LUCK!
__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 11:21 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Gordon Dewald's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 10,164
IMO CCC or NCC is about as reliable and relevant as MSRP. It is a good indication of what you could carry in a perfect world but then reality sets in. It is the difference between design and implementation. In most cases there can be a significant gap.

As previously stated the axle capacity is/should be the limiting factor. The manufacturer will know the rated capacity for each axle and should be able to give you the approximate weight for each axle as manufactured.

However adding fuel and water will change those numbers. Recently Newmar went through the issue with their Dutch Stars. The front axle capacity was exceeded with full water and fuel and two passengers. That has been addressed but the issue is there.

If you are purchasing a coach and the dealer cannot provide the axle weights with full fuel and water as well as the axle capacities it is time to either call the manufacturer or look at a different brand.

As stated much will have to do with what and how you will be loading your coach. Get advice from the forum but check the numbers carefully for yourself. It is your safety you are working with.
__________________
Gordon and Janet
Tour 42QD/inTech Stacker
Gordon Dewald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 11:27 AM   #13
Senior Member


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menendez View Post
Unfortunately many companies don't supply useful specs for loading in their brochures and websites. Which raises suspicions.
Could you provide us with some examples of coaches you're interested in? Especially ones where the companies do not provide "useful specs?"
__________________
Mark
2008 Holiday Rambler Admiral 30PDD (Ford F-53 chassis)
2009 Honda Fit Sport
l1v3fr33ord1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 11:56 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
IMO CCC or NCC is about as reliable and relevant as MSRP. It is a good indication of what you could carry in a perfect world but then reality sets in. It is the difference between design and implementation. In most cases there can be a significant gap....
Well said!
__________________

__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Class A towing capacity - damage due to overloading? TwelveVolt Spartan Motorhome Chassis Forum 16 08-17-2013 10:09 PM
Rear Axle Overloading in RR Coaches Robin_M Monaco Owner's Forum 10 09-09-2009 11:29 AM
Overloading Hitch Questions Kyle241 Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 7 08-19-2007 05:43 PM
Factory overloading one leg of the 50 Amp circuit JavaJelly Newmar Owner's Forum 5 11-28-2006 12:20 PM
AC overloading surfride Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 1 07-07-2006 01:44 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.