Overloading common?

[Menendez]

We're thinking of buying an A gasser and the more I learn the more cautious I'm becoming, being under the impression that many of these units, evidently nearly all built on various Ford chassis, are very close to weight limits on chassis and axles even in their empty state. Comments are solicited.

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by Menendez

We're thinking of buying an A gasser and the more I learn the more cautious I'm becoming, being under the impression that many of these units, evidently nearly all built on various Ford chassis, are very close to weight limits on chassis and axles even in their empty state. Comments are solicited.

I can't speak to the weight issues, but at this point all current production gas engine motor homes use the Ford V-10 engine. GM, with their 8.1 Vortec engine got out of the Motor Home business some years ago, although there are rumors that they are thinking of getting back into it. So if you are set on a gas engine, and don't like the Ford V-10, you are currently restricted to an older motor home. Not that that is a bad thing, but something to consider.

[vettenuts]

If you have specific coaches in mind, download the brochure and it will provide the capacity. On the same chassis, various models have different carrying capacity within the same manufacturer. That is one of the first things I checked when looking at coaches.

[Steverino]

Based on everything I've read, I think you are right to be concerned. It is unfortunate that on top of finding a brand / floor plan / features you like, you also need to dig down into the various weight ratings and tank capacities to figure out whether the rig you're looking at will safely carry what you need. And this is even more fun if you're looking for something used.

Best of luck to you - with some patience and time invested you'll find the perfect one.

[Menendez]

Originally Posted by vettenuts

If you have specific coaches in mind, download the brochure and it will provide the capacity. On the same chassis, various models have different carrying capacity within the same manufacturer. That is one of the first things I checked when looking at coaches.

Unfortunately many companies don't supply useful specs for loading in their brochures and websites. Which raises suspicions.

[Gary RVRoamer]

I don't think the problem is as widespread as you seem to think, but it is one of the factors you should verify before buying. We owned a couple gas coaches before switching to diesel and neither was overloaded, even with all out gear onboard (and we carry a LOT of stuff for extended travel).

Since around 2000, both Workhorse and Ford developed larger gas chassis that can accommodate the popular size/weight coaches. Back in the 90's, that wasn't so true and coach builders sometimes put too large a body on the chassis, largely ignoring its GVWR limit. Higher end models had tag axles added to handle the weight, but the one targeted at lower price levels skimped in that area.

[jacwjames]

The brochures are hard to decipher as to how much you can carry, however, each manufacturer has to display a sticker that breaks down the numbers into something that can be understood. The number to look at is CCC Cargo Carrying Capacity, which is the amount of weight you can carry excluding people, fuel, water etc.

You are right to be concerned as to the CCC available. It's not only on gas coaches but also on diesel pushers both large and small. There was a recent thread on a high end coach that left the factory with a front axle underrated from what the spec's had.

Dealers aren't going to point this out unless it's a high CCC so it's up to the buyer to investigate and get a coach that can handle whatever they plan to carry.

This is only one of the drawbacks on my coach, I only have ~1800 lbs of CCC. Sounds like a lot but in reality it isn't considering the storage space available. I actually had a class C that had +2400 lbs that hardly had any space to put things. I'm finally getting my wife to understand this and reduce the none essential "stuff".

[wildtoad]

The issue of how much stuff you can carry is NOT limited to gassers. Many diesels also have a limited amount of carrying capacity after all the options are added in, tile floors, and so on. Everyone needs to do their homework, consider how much "Stuff" you want to bring along, how much water you need to carry, empty tanks before you leave and above all don't bring everything you have "Just in case".

[windsorbill]

My brother just brought a new gasser on the ford chassis. I have scales to weight the individual corners and we weighted his. We tried several different conditions, (full tanks, empty tanks, with and without people). I was very surprised that when he was sitting in the drivers seat, we were only 100 lbs below the maximum front axle weight. So without doing anything else, when a second person is sitting up front, he's over weight (front axle only). He now compensates by putting weight way aft, but I think it's just too close.


FWIW, I personally can't get close to max on our axles, and my wife can pack the stuff in.

[JFXG]

Originally Posted by windsorbill

My brother just brought a new gasser on the ford chassis.......when he was sitting in the drivers seat, we were only 100 lbs below the maximum front axle weight.......He now compensates by putting weight way aft, but I think it's just too close.......

Bill, the coach builders do exactly the same thing! That's why you see so many gas coaches with fairly short wheelbase and a loooooong rear overhang.



John & Diane, fulltiming since '12
'02 DS, FL, Cat, '04 Element
NHSO RVM103

[Sky_Boss]

As has been said, not restricted to gassers but different. Typically in a gasser you will max out the rear axle before you reach GVWR while in (at least tag axles) it is the front axle that maxes out before you reach GVWR.

In other words...IMHO...you will never get to use your GVWR, gas or DP, because you will have an axle max out first. Only a couple manufacturer's will provide NCC/CCC information for a STOCK model (before options) and conversely, because of maxing an axle out first you will never get to use the full NCC/CCC as delivered.

Our 39' Winnebago had nearly 1800# of CCC but once we loaded it for part time use, full fresh water, full fuel, full LP and about 20% grey & black tanks we maxed out the rear axle. We did everything we could to shift weight forward but didn't solve that problem.

Our 43' DSDP has a GVWR of 44,200# and fully loaded with all the good stuff weighs in at 37,240# but my front axle is now close to being maxed out. I have nearly 7,000# of unusable CCC BUT...I am loaded for our full time needs and can't complain.

It is a balancing act. It is also a bit of serious footwork to find as much info as you can to better GUESS your real limitations. If you are looking at a coach that is already on the lot I highly recommend you get it weighed to at least know the real axle loads as it was built. With axle weights take into consideration what you have in actual fuel, propane & people and calculate some realistic estimates by adding for those factors not in the coach when weighed. Once you do that, you are left with your best guess on how the rest of the stuff will do to your axle limits.

The problem is that most new buyers are totally ignorant to weight and balance issues and dealers aren't going to talk about it. Having learned the hard way about these issues and redefining our mission to go full time is why we chose our second coach. HOWEVER...depending on the needs/wants of others, a gasser can be very acceptable.

In the end, it is a bit of a guess on what will be best for you unless you have had some real life experiences to guide you. The next best option is to find a couple friends with similar goals/needs that you can pick their brains and get as much info from them as you can.

GOOD LUCK!

[Gordon Dewald]

IMO CCC or NCC is about as reliable and relevant as MSRP. It is a good indication of what you could carry in a perfect world but then reality sets in. It is the difference between design and implementation. In most cases there can be a significant gap.

As previously stated the axle capacity is/should be the limiting factor. The manufacturer will know the rated capacity for each axle and should be able to give you the approximate weight for each axle as manufactured.

However adding fuel and water will change those numbers. Recently Newmar went through the issue with their Dutch Stars. The front axle capacity was exceeded with full water and fuel and two passengers. That has been addressed but the issue is there.

If you are purchasing a coach and the dealer cannot provide the axle weights with full fuel and water as well as the axle capacities it is time to either call the manufacturer or look at a different brand.

As stated much will have to do with what and how you will be loading your coach. Get advice from the forum but check the numbers carefully for yourself. It is your safety you are working with.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Originally Posted by Menendez

Unfortunately many companies don't supply useful specs for loading in their brochures and websites. Which raises suspicions.

Could you provide us with some examples of coaches you're interested in? Especially ones where the companies do not provide "useful specs?"

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

IMO CCC or NCC is about as reliable and relevant as MSRP. It is a good indication of what you could carry in a perfect world but then reality sets in. It is the difference between design and implementation. In most cases there can be a significant gap....

Well said!