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Old 10-16-2015, 05:13 PM   #1
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Patriot Brake Problem

We just returned from a trip to the Grand Canyon and Albuquerque Balloon Festival

As soon as we got back to Michigan and detached our Toad, we noticed the rear brakes making a metal on metal noise.

We took it in for service and the entire brake system was fried. Needed new brakes, rotors calipers and hardware. Many of the parts were melted. Very expensive repair.

We have had Our Patriot Brake system for 1.5 years and used it over 10K miles without a problem. I am certain that it was installed properly.

Has anyone had a similar problem??

Bob & Nancy M & Lexi our Maltese
2014 Tiffin Phaeton 40QBH, 380 Cummins, Allison trans
2014 GMC Acadia toad with Blue Ox & Patriot Brake
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Old 10-16-2015, 06:11 PM   #2
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Was all the towing done with the same coach ?
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Old 10-16-2015, 08:34 PM   #3
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The obvious questions are, "Was the gain set the same on this trip, as the prior trips?", and, "Was the brake light on the control monitor 'on' when it did not need to be?"

I keep mine in the 3-4 range, depending on the road. I'm paranoid about problems like you describe, but not encountered them.

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Old 10-16-2015, 11:41 PM   #4
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Two things come to mind,
As already mentioned, did you see the application lights come on at the monitor?
Second, are you certain during initial set up that the brake light was going off after each stroke to indicate the seat was not too far forward?
I cooked the parking brakes on mine but that was due to a senior brain fart moment. Other than that, in five years I have not had anything like you describe.
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:46 AM   #5
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IF your patriot system hooks up like my RVI2 system you have to hit the calibrate button and have it push the brake pedal to get the vacuum out of the system mine pushes the pedal 5 times to get vacuum out of the booster. I hooked mine up one time and after a mile of driviing saw smoke coming out of the wheels. I removed the RVI system and called them the next day. They asked if i had started the car for anything after installing the system I had. They asked if I recalibrated the system after starting the car. I had forgotten to. That was my problem. RVI gave me some very good advice.

The last thing you do before walking back to the door of your RV is to look at the back of your Toad and see if the brake lights are on. If they are you have a problem because it means your brakes are on.

If necessary at this point you can try to recalibrate and see if that fixes it. if not remove the system until you can get to a place to see what is the problem.

If the activator is holding the pedal in because of inacurate calibration ( for instance the booster has vacuum) that will not show up on your monitor because the system is not trying to set the brakes.
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:10 AM   #6
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We got in a panic to leave a shop that was closing the gates for the day and our RVi brake did not get properly calibrated as well. Luckily the tire pressure monitor began screaming about high temps. I was able to pull over and disconnect the brake then pull it 20 miles down the road to cool it. No damage done but I will never be without a TPMS in the future. Also I had failed to do that last brake light off check.


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Old 10-17-2015, 11:06 PM   #7
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When we were using the Patriot, I always thought that when you do the calibration, it zeros out the acceleration, too. If you are not on level ground, say nose up, it says that is zero. Then when the toad goes level, it interprets that as a deceleration. Don't know of that is how it really works, but I noticed sometime just slowing down a very little amount would activate the brake. Other times I would have to brake real hard to get it to activate.

Also, I never really understood the "gain" setting. Assumed it was for how sensitive it was to deceleration, but other times wondered if it was how much force it put on the pedal.

Finally, seems odd that only your rear brakes were affected....sort of pints to the parking brake....?

Jeff
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:58 PM   #8
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Very helpful comments

Our gain was set to 5 on this trip as on all of our trips. From my research, that is appropriate.

All of the miles driven were with the same RV and tow vehicle. Didn't have a problem until now.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. ALL four brakes were fried. I noticed the sound in the rear when I first started driving the vehicle.

The application brake light monitor was not on while towing, unless I was braking the Coach. It was on rarely, because I rarely brake the coach hard enough to activate the Patriot brake.

The BEST tip that all of you have given me is concerning the "Brake Lights". I have not been checking if the brake lights are on during or after set up. I just made certain that when I set the seat in place that the brake pedal was not depressed. I will be checking the brake lights in the future. I was not told to do so when the dealer gave me an in service education and I don't see it in my instructions.

Also,
I may have screwed up or had a "brain fart" in setup. I do recall once during the trip when I was all set up and realized that the vehicle was in "Park", being lazy and always in a hurry, I depressed the pedal with the Patriot in place to start the vehicle and put it into neutral. Not sure if I reset the Patriot Brake, or if this is what happened and caused the problem. But, it is clear, as a number of people stated, that the brake MUST be re-set up if the vehicle is restarted.

Thanks for all of the thoughts. I will definitely be more careful in the future. Expensive lesson.

After this situation, I am somewhat reluctant to use the supplemental brake in the future. I feel it is essential when in the mountains, but wondering if it really essential when traveling in the plains states.

Also wondering whether I should turn the gain down to zero when not in areas with severe grades.

The problem with this type of thinking is for emergency situations when someone pulls out in front of you or traffic comes to a screeching halt. Our toad weighs about 6,000 pounds and the auxiliary brake could be critical for stopping us in the shortest possible distance in those situations.

Again, THANKS for taking the time to share your thoughts!!
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:03 PM   #9
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Gain

Gain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizzer View Post
When we were using the Patriot, I always thought that when you do the calibration, it zeros out the acceleration, too. If you are not on level ground, say nose up, it says that is zero. Then when the toad goes level, it interprets that as a deceleration. Don't know of that is how it really works, but I noticed sometime just slowing down a very little amount would activate the brake. Other times I would have to brake real hard to get it to activate.

Also, I never really understood the "gain" setting. Assumed it was for how sensitive it was to deceleration, but other times wondered if it was how much force it put on the pedal.

Finally, seems odd that only your rear brakes were affected....sort of pints to the parking brake....?

Jeff
Jeff, Like you, I never really understood the gain, until now. I have read a great deal. The gain increases (9) or decreases (1) the force of the pedal. When it is turned all the way down the pedal does not function. I saw references that for small cars and hybrids the gain should be on 1-3 and for larger vehicles it should be on 5-9 with 5 being appropriate for most toads. In the past, I thought mistakenly that "gain" had to do with radio signal between the brake and the monitor in the cab.
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Old 10-18-2015, 06:29 PM   #10
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To expand on my OP a little, This is my procedure that has worked well for me. I adopted this from Blue Ox a couple of years ago when I was having trouble getting it to settle in to the Ready State. I had their customer service on the phone giving me instruction. Turned out, the internal battery was kaput but I did learn their recommended set up.

During set up I set the Patriot in place with the seat all the way back, then bring the seat forward (making sure the device is Square to the Seat) until the brake light comes on. Then I move the seat back in small increments until the brake light light goes out. All the while, I have the car running with the transmission in Neutral.

At this point, I shut the engine off and hit the set up button. While the Patriot is going through its three stroke routine, I watch the brakes lights to make sure they are turning on and off through each stroke.
I usually set my gain at 3-4 depending on the terrain but my CRV weighs only around 3000 lbs.

Hope this helps,
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:35 AM   #11
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Patriot Brake Set Up Process

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis45 View Post
To expand on my OP a little, This is my procedure that has worked well for me. I adopted this from Blue Ox a couple of years ago when I was having trouble getting it to settle in to the Ready State. I had their customer service on the phone giving me instruction. Turned out, the internal battery was kaput but I did learn their recommended set up.

During set up I set the Patriot in place with the seat all the way back, then bring the seat forward (making sure the device is Square to the Seat) until the brake light comes on. Then I move the seat back in small increments until the brake light light goes out. All the while, I have the car running with the transmission in Neutral.

At this point, I shut the engine off and hit the set up button. While the Patriot is going through its three stroke routine, I watch the brakes lights to make sure they are turning on and off through each stroke.
I usually set my gain at 3-4 depending on the terrain but my CRV weighs only around 3000 lbs.

Hope this helps,
Thanks, sounds like a great process to follow.
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