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Old 06-10-2011, 01:52 PM   #1
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Performance?

No doubt, we love our Journey & its CAT 330. However... Climbing the Grapevine (southbound) towing our race car trailer (5,000 lb) speed got down pretty low, to around 30 mph. This is a pretty steep hill of course, but I seems like it should have done a bit better. Going north, we could hold 50 mph through the mountains. Aside from slow speed; motor stayed cool, etc.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:26 PM   #2
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Hi there, Not sure about the highway name or your location from your ZIP. But I have had similar issues on the road, Bakersfield Ca. east bound and return on the same road. Highway 58 ? I'd have to check a map. Anyhow 38' DSDP 330Cat/3060 Allison rear axle ratio 4:63. 3700lbs flat towed behind. The slope going east is much steeper, or seems that way, than west bound, and speed is different. Can't remember exactly. What I am sure of is that in both directions I was passing most of the semi's, and the odd coach on the road. Overall 10.5mpg on my trip from Canada to Parker Az. 1660 miles. I'll live with the speed uphill, to have the economy.
Performance is what you make it, I have owned cars that got the same mileage as this coach. But I don't need to go 170mph, anymore, I survived it once that's enough.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:34 PM   #3
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30mph sounds pretty slow to me, but that's a lot of toad back there. Hopefully others with similar coaches will chime in.

BTW, I believe that is highway 58 east bound out of Bakersfield and the Grapevine is I5 north of L.A..

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Old 06-10-2011, 07:08 PM   #4
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I have been considering adding a Banks kit to my Discovery 39R to get more power. Uphill at 7000 ft. And only 15 mph in first gear. No toad yet so I think more power maybe needed. 6.7 ISB 350 hp. Thoughts?
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Automobilist View Post
No doubt, we love our Journey & its CAT 330. However... Climbing the Grapevine (southbound) towing our race car trailer (5,000 lb) speed got down pretty low, to around 30 mph. This is a pretty steep hill of course, but I seems like it should have done a bit better. Going north, we could hold 50 mph through the mountains. Aside from slow speed; motor stayed cool, etc.
Do you manually downshift to keep the RRRR's up? Or just let the tranny do its thing. I tow a Jeep Grand Cherokee and it weighs approx 4500 lbs. I don't recall ever getting below 40-45 MPH on steep grades unless there's traffic or alot of curves. Maybe you need to get the boost on the turbo checked.

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Old 06-10-2011, 07:31 PM   #6
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An ambulance forced me to stop on the grade and starting from zero was sloops. I do manually shift, tried the automatic route and quit that after my first 500 miles.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:32 PM   #7
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I meant sloooow.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:34 PM   #8
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The uphill performance likely depends considerably on the weight package the engine is pushing.

Our rig weighs 31,000 lbs and the toad 4,500 lbs. The engine is a 300 HP 8.3C mechanical or about 30 hp less than the OP's.

I find the max speed on steep grades like portions of the Grapevine is about 35 mph.

Others, with lighter toads and motorhomes go up faster with a similar engine.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:57 PM   #9
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The trick is to know what RPM your horsepower is made at. On my Detroit my max RPM is 2100 and my best HP is made at 1800 rpm. Until a truck driver showed me I had problems with pulling my heavy MH and toad up I-5 from California into Oregon by Mt Shasta. What the truck driver told me to do was DO NOT OVER REV IT but keep mine at 1700-1800 rpm and downshift to a gear that matches the speed I want to drive at. For me this was 4th gear so at 1800 rpm I was at 48 mph. I can climb anything like that and maintain 48 mph until some 4 wheeler talking on a cell phone pulls in front and slows me down then it takes some time to build back up. This is a horsepower issue and not a torque issue so look up your engine specs and find out where you make your HP and that is where you should be.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:27 PM   #10
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Automobilist......The southbound climb is always a crap shoot. There is much more of a grade, just prior to the climb, than most realize. Then you have to hope that a truck hasn't jumped out of the truck lane to take the entire grade to pass another truck, cars aren't passing on the right and a guy with the horsepower in a car to do 90 isn't going 45-50 in the slow lane. Once you get by all of that, your coach and trailer would need a good running start and then some downshifts to your power sweet spot. I think your speed may be a little slow, but I wouldn't expect much more.

I've been driving RV's and towing trailers for a long time, but there was a learning curve with my diesel when it came to managing the power. I use to let the Allison do most of the thinking, but over time I found that in some instances, I could do a better job.....not often, but occasionally.
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:59 PM   #11
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Year to year, Cat to Cummins, 6.7 to C-7, haven't seen a real fair comparison yet.
Alan24601 a 39' coach with a 6.7, what trans and rear gear? I'd realy be interested in seeing your weights. In MHO you didn't get enough motor for that coach. 6.7 might work ok in 30' 26,000lbs range, and if you check your torque to weight ratio against other coaches, I think you'll see a huge difference. Pulling from a dead stop uphill takes huge low RPM torque and If you can pull up a torque/RPM chart on your engine verses an ISC or C-7 you'll see where the difference is. As in the 60,s there's no substitute for cubic inches.
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:15 PM   #12
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We have an ISB XT that is 767 lb ft at 1700 rpm and 350 hp. It is an Allison 3000 six speed. Not sure what the axle ratio is. ISL definitely have more power but this one is what we liked and now We are trying to make it work for us. Not sure when we will be able to make some long trips so right now is the time to change things, before I stop working. If the Banks gives another 55 hp and about 110 lb ft. Of torgue then it might be worth the money but end user opinions are valuable when it comes to spending fairly big bucks.
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:35 PM   #13
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Hi there, Not sure about the highway name or your location from your ZIP. But I have had similar issues on the road, Bakersfield Ca. east bound and return on the same road. Highway 58 ? I'd have to check a map. Anyhow 38' DSDP 330Cat/3060 Allison rear axle ratio 4:63. 3700lbs flat towed behind. The slope going east is much steeper, or seems that way, than west bound, and speed is different. Can't remember exactly. What I am sure of is that in both directions I was passing most of the semi's, and the odd coach on the road. Overall 10.5mpg on my trip from Canada to Parker Az. 1660 miles. I'll live with the speed uphill, to have the economy.
Performance is what you make it, I have owned cars that got the same mileage as this coach. But I don't need to go 170mph, anymore, I survived it once that's enough.

On 58 east from Bakersfield to Tehachapi, you climb 3500 ft, much of it at 5-5.5 %, but one shorter stretch of about 2 miles at 6 %. Going the other way, you have about 14-1500 ft climb from Cache Creek to Tehachapi, I don't think any of this is over 4 %, but you can have a 40-60 MPH headwind. The southbound I-5, (grapevine) is about 3500 ft climb also, but much of it is 6 %. It is a tougher climb than 58 east, and as pointed out, you have a long slow climb before you even get to the main grade.

For anyone traveling either of these routes out of the valley, truck traffic gets extremely heavy in the mid to late afternoon. Word of caution, they will not hesitate to take a lane, w/o signaling, if they are moving 0.5 faster than the truck in front of them. (most of the time, the one in front catches a gear, and pulls ahead anyway). On 58, you can be behind two side by side trucks the entire climb at 34-35 MPH. (there is only two lanes, on I-5, they take all 5 lanes doing the same thing). In our car or pickup, coming up 58 we have been pushed into the center median many times, and there is a divider barrier there, it is tight for a car, the MH would not fit!
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
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We have an ISB XT that is 767 lb ft at 1700 rpm and 350 hp. It is an Allison 3000 six speed. Not sure what the axle ratio is. ISL definitely have more power but this one is what we liked and now We are trying to make it work for us. Not sure when we will be able to make some long trips so right now is the time to change things, before I stop working. If the Banks gives another 55 hp and about 110 lb ft. Of torgue then it might be worth the money but end user opinions are valuable when it comes to spending fairly big bucks.
Plot out the HP/torque curves of the stock vs Banks. It's not always the maximum increase that makes a difference.
With the stock ISC 350 I had 1050 ft lbs at 1400 rpm, and it goes down from there. Now I never get down to or below 1050 till 2100 rpm. I have 1200 ft lbs from 1400 to just past 1700 rpm and that's more than the ISL 425 has.
Here's the link
On one hill on I-5 I used to start at 60 mph in 6th and be down to 50 in 4th at WOT. Now I start at 60 in 6th and end at 60 in 6th on cruise control with throttle left.
Another hill I could start at 70 and be down to 60 I can gain speed on.
Yes, there really is that much difference
No, from previous experience I didn't plan on any mileage increase so I'm not disappointed that there isn't any!
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