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Old 05-12-2015, 08:17 PM   #29
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We've used bleach for a long time, but recently switched to chlorine because it's easier to manage the dry compound.

I don't add any if I know the water source (for example, if I am filling at home). Otherwise I like to put in 1 teaspoon of the dry chlorine (we carry 100 gallons fresh water) because it's pretty mild, doesn't impact the use of the water for washing/showering/whatnot and there's nothing worse that heading out on a trip to discover that your fresh water smells....well...rank.

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Old 05-12-2015, 08:20 PM   #30
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Just clorox every spring after winter storage. I also pump it into the lines to clean them. let it sit in there about 3 days
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:55 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
Lemon juice or other acids like vinegar are NOT sanitizers; hydrogen peroxide is, but not in the concentrations one gets by dumping a few bottles of Walmart 2% household peroxide into your tank.

Full disclosure: career in dairy manufacturing, dairy plant sanitation and quality assurance.
Full Disclosure: I have no experience cleaning a dairy facility, but I think you do it with very strong chemicals produced in a chemical plant. I also suspect all of those chemicals come with strong warnings for use.

Does Lemon Juice Kill Germs?
Germs need an alkaline environment in which to thrive and multiply, making lemon juice a natural enemy due to its rich acid content. Lab studies support the effectiveness of lemon juice as an antibacterial. In a 1993 test to determine the effectiveness of lemon juice in purifying water, the National Center for Biotechnology Information reported a significant reduction in the v. cholera bacterium to lower the water's alkalinity levels, which encourage bacterial growth.

Lemon Juice Mold Removal:
The environmentally aware use "green" alternatives for many chemical products, including household cleaners. But for the toughest cleaning challenges such as eradicating mold and mildew, the temptation to pull out the bleach still exists. Resist that urge and instead try one of Mother Nature's best mold-killers -- lemon juice. Lemon juice is a natural germ killer and contains about 5 percent acid, making it both effective and environmentally friendly in the battle against mold. Lemon juice is also less harsh and easier to clean up than bleach. Its smell is more pleasant than vinegar. Lemon juice is often used undiluted for advanced mold problems, but it is also effective when diluted or mixed with other cleaning agents. Fill a spray bottle with half lemon juice and half water for a handy mold and mildew-killing spray. Lemon juice blended with salt will create an antibacterial paste that can be used throughout the home. Heating pure or diluted lemon juice can increase its effectiveness. Lemon juice will kill mold or mildew on shower curtains, garbage disposals, fabrics and carpet. Damp basement walls and bathroom surfaces also respond well to a lemon juice treatment. Spray either pure or diluted lemon juice on the surface and let set for ten minutes before washing the surface with warm, soapy water.

I am not a chemist and I do fear chemicals made in chemical plants. Go to your favorite food store and pickup a cream pie in freezer section. I can not pronounce one word of what made the pie. Pie is made in chemical plant. I choose to use natural when possible rather than known dangerous chemicals.

I will continue to use Lemon juice to rid my RV water system of germs. It also taste good. I do not worry about a child or animal drinking what I use because it has no warnings.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:51 AM   #32
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Does Lemon Juice Kill Germs?
Germs need an alkaline environment in which to thrive and multiply, making lemon juice a natural enemy due to its rich acid content. Lab studies support the effectiveness of lemon juice as an antibacterial. In a 1993 test to determine the effectiveness of lemon juice in purifying water, the National Center for Biotechnology Information reported a significant reduction in the v. cholera bacterium to lower the water's alkalinity levels, which encourage bacterial growth.
I think you've misquoted this article -- Lemon juice as a natural biocide for disinfecting drinking water.

The article actually says "The results show that lemon juice can actively prevent survival of V. cholerae but that such activity is reduced in markedly alkaline water."

Plus, using lemon juice was only suggested for those "areas lacking water treatment plants".

Here's a more timely article: Citrus May Be Key To Drinking Water Purification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by osok View Post
Lemon Juice Mold Removal:
The environmentally aware use "green" alternatives for many chemical products, including household cleaners. But for the toughest cleaning challenges such as eradicating mold and mildew, the temptation to pull out the bleach still exists. Resist that urge and instead try one of Mother Nature's best mold-killers -- lemon juice.
Eliminating mold and mildew is not the main reason for sanitizing an RV water system.

Killing harmful bacteria and viruses is the purpose. This means disinfecting hard surfaces, particularly the water holding tank, with a recognized disinfectant.

Quote:
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I am not a chemist and I do fear chemicals made in chemical plants. Go to your favorite food store and pickup a cream pie in freezer section. I can not pronounce one word of what made the pie. Pie is made in chemical plant. I choose to use natural when possible rather than known dangerous chemicals.

I will continue to use Lemon juice to rid my RV water system of germs. It also taste good. I do not worry about a child or animal drinking what I use because it has no warnings.
It's one thing to add lemon juice to water and another to clean the water tank.

BTW, volcanoes are "natural", but I wouldn't want one in my back yard.
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Old 05-13-2015, 09:06 AM   #33
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My guess is that you're not using Accelerated Hydrogen Peroxide or 15% (or greater) hydrogen peroxide, right?

I don't think either of these is available to consumers.

Anyway, you're probably using over-the-counter hydrogen peroxide (3%) which will thoroughly clean the bacteria, but not kill them.
I buy 12% from a local druggist
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Old 05-13-2015, 03:32 PM   #34
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Dichlor etc contains cyanuric acid (stabilizer) in addition to calcium hypochlorite. For the small amount of chlorine needed I'd just buy a small jug of plain bleach.
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Old 05-13-2015, 05:25 PM   #35
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I think you've misquoted this article -- Lemon juice as a natural biocide for disinfecting drinking water.

The article actually says "The results show that lemon juice can actively prevent survival of V. cholerae but that such activity is reduced in markedly alkaline water."

Got me on that one. It only says "it can actively prevent survival", however, it continues that prevention is "reduced" in markedly alkaline water. Key word is reduced (not ineffective). Would have been nice if article stated at what ppm is markedly alkaline, to reduces effectiveness.

Plus, using lemon juice was only suggested for those "areas lacking water treatment plants".

It's good enough for untreated water so it seems to this non-chemist that it should work well in "treated water". Yes, it is possible to get untreated water from personal water wells in USA, but, it does say suggested for untreated water.

Here's a more timely article: Citrus May Be Key To Drinking Water Purification.


Eliminating mold and mildew is not the main reason for sanitizing an RV water system.

Killing harmful bacteria and viruses is the purpose. This means disinfecting hard surfaces, particularly the water holding tank, with a recognized disinfectant.

I agree 100%. All the references you listed above indicates Lemon juice and or Lime juice does kill. Does it kill all, I do not know but is suggested for untreated water. Your reference to Recognized Disinfectants tells us some very important facts. Scroll down to Effectiveness - Bleach is effective against most bacteria; it does not say effective against all. Continues to say effective against some viruses, does not say all. I can not pronounce most of the chemicals referenced and it says some are not readily available. All list health warnings. Again I trust Lemon juice because it comes with no health warnings, and suggested for use.


It's one thing to add lemon juice to water and another to clean the water tank.

I am only trying to present to others that there is a way without using harsh chemicals. I admit it may not kill everything possible, but, bleach apparently does not either.

BTW, volcanoes are "natural", but I wouldn't want one in my back yard.

I like you do not want "active" volcanoes in my back yard but I'm happy with "natural" Lemon juice in my back yard and my Lime tree. I do enjoy visiting the beautiful mountains that were created by volcanoes.
All of the above seems to suggest we agree to disagree. Everyone will use the chemical or natural disinfectant they think works best for them. And that is good.
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Old 05-13-2015, 05:45 PM   #36
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Dichlor etc contains cyanuric acid (stabilizer) in addition to calcium hypochlorite. For the small amount of chlorine needed I'd just buy a small jug of plain bleach.

Yep. That is why I wouldn't even use it in my pool. Add the stabilizer by itself, and the chlorine by itself. Avoids having an out of control CYA.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:26 PM   #37
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But how much lemon juice do you add?

To sanitize the water, the two articles recommend slightly different concentrations:

Lemon juice as a natural biocide for disinfecting drinking water mentions 2%, which would be 2 gallons of lemon juice for a 100 gallon water tank.

Citrus May Be Key To Drinking Water Purification mentions 30ml per liter, which works out to 1.5 gallons of lemon juice for a 100 gallon water tank.

1.5 to 2 gallons - that a lot of lemons to squeeze!

But that's just to disinfect the water. To actually sanitize the water system, you will most likely need a stronger solution:

Quote:
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Fill a spray bottle with half lemon juice and half water for a handy mold and mildew-killing spray.
If that concentration is needed, that's 50 gallons of lemon juice in a 100 gallon water tank!

I don't know, going natural has a certain appeal, but to sanitize a 100 gallon water system, 1.66 cups of household bleach (0.1 gallons) sounds a lot easier and cheaper than 1.5, 2, or 50 gallons of lemon juice.
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:24 PM   #38
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But how much lemon juice do you add?

To sanitize the water, the two articles recommend slightly different concentrations:

Lemon juice as a natural biocide for disinfecting drinking water mentions 2%, which would be 2 gallons of lemon juice for a 100 gallon water tank.

Citrus May Be Key To Drinking Water Purification mentions 30ml per liter, which works out to 1.5 gallons of lemon juice for a 100 gallon water tank.

1.5 to 2 gallons - that a lot of lemons to squeeze!

Yes you are correct that would be a lot of lemons to squeeze. I chose to purchase already squeezed.

But that's just to disinfect the water. To actually sanitize the water system, you will most likely need a stronger solution:

So you must add much more chemicals because you think a disinfected tank needs something else called upon to sanitize.



If that concentration is needed, that's 50 gallons of lemon juice in a 100 gallon water tank!

I would say eek also if using that much, but you may have misread my comment or probably more so I did not commincate clearly. The 50 -50 solution in spray bottle is for spaying items throughout the house you want to disinfect. My spray bottle holds 12 oz. total fluid. Would be very difficult to spray 50 gallons into your MH water tank and would be a waste since we know you only need about 1/2 gals. With Lemon juice I fill my tank less than 1/2 full. See I can treat my tank while on the road and let the juice continue to bath the tank all day. End of day I can use the water to drink, cook, bath. If you use chemicals you must continue to circulate entire water tank to get the chemicals out. No wasted water using Lemon juice.

I don't know, going natural has a certain appeal, but to sanitize a 100 gallon water system, 1.66 cups of household bleach (0.1 gallons) sounds a lot easier and cheaper than 1.5, 2, or 50 gallons of lemon juice.
Yes it is not for everyone, and I was only trying to let people know that there is a way to accomplish the same thing without using chemicals. I choose not to use chemicals and have never used 50 gals. of anything.



Can we live a chemical free life, probably not and I do not try to do so in all aspects of life. But when I find I can reduce my chemical use I do. I fear chemicals because I was poisoned by them when the chemical manufacturer claimed their chemical was safe. My poisoning was not due to drinking it, was due to a mist being sprayed on me and my body soaked it in as well as breathing it. I will continue to suffer the effects until I die.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:29 PM   #39
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since we know you only need about 1/2 gals. With Lemon juice I fill my tank less than 1/2 full.
I'm curious how you came up with 1/2 gallon? Using the minimum concentration mentioned in those quoted articles would mean that the treated quantity of water is only 33 gallons. You say you fill your tank half way, so is your tank only 66 gallons? (A half gallon still sounds like a lot of lemon juice: the best prices I find online puts lemon juice at around $8 to $10 per gallon.)

And while you're talking about treating the water, I thought the discussion was about sanitizing the water system, which generally takes a stronger concentration of the disinfectant. In the case of chlorine, it needs to be about 50 times stronger than when simply treating the water. If the same ratio holds for the lemon juice, we're back in the realm of 50 gallons to sanitize a 100 gallon tank. And I don't think that half a tank will cut it for sanitizing the tank, even while driving around - I'll bet you'll find that the water sloshes a lot less than you think (unless you drive your MH like a rallye driver!)
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:50 PM   #40
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We use the pool stuff.
We also drank from garden hoses when we were kids so if we don't have blobs of green stuff coming out the faucet I'm pretty much good with it.
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:40 PM   #41
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I use Sodium Dichlor powder. Requires one tsp for 100G. It is much more convenient than liquid bleach. For your reading plesasure: More than you ever wanted to know about forms of chlorine sanitisers.
Finally, here is the USDEP concentration chart for disinfecting drinking water.
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